Should Dublin Have an Advanced Diploma for High School Students?
The Dublin Unified School District (DUSD) is continually looking to encourage academic achievement and maximize student success. With this in mind, the DUSD Board of Trustees recently approved the creation of a “Diploma with Distinction” to recognize Dublin High School students that receive all Cs or better and high scores on the California state exams.
Many parents have argued that while this new type of diploma is a move in the right direction, it does not go far enough to encourage students to stretch for the level of achievement required for acceptance into the University of California (UC) system. To this end, the DUSD Board recently discussed the possibility of creating an Advanced Diploma to recognize outstanding students that meet the average acceptance standards set by UC schools (e.g., 4 years of science and math, 3 years of foreign language).
At the conclusion of their discussion, the DUSD Board of Trustees voted 3-2 against further exploration of the ‘Advanced Diploma’ concept. DUSD Board Trustees Ledahl, Henry, and Cunningham felt that the DUSD should focus on cost-cutting measures and developing classes to support the new Dublin High School graduation requirements. On the other hand, DUSD Board President Haubert and Trustee Tomlinson noted that exploring the concept of an Advanced Diploma would not require much additional work and could be a huge win for students striving for acceptance into a UC school.
This week’s poll question is - Do you think that Dublin High School should have an Advanced Diploma?
1:10 PM on February 19th, 2009
“a “Diploma with Distinction” to recognize Dublin High School students that receive all Cs or better”
At that rate, a Diploma w/Distinction will guarantee all who attain it automatic admission into their choice of California community colleges!
Wow Dublin, way to set the bar high!
1:24 PM on February 19th, 2009
If this program requires our taxes to increase from it’s already astronomical percentage of state, county, and local taxes, then absolutely not.
3:09 PM on February 19th, 2009
Cs or better is setting the bar way too low. We’ll never catch up with other nations in terms of producing top notch leaders and CEOs of the future. Look at our most recent departed President, had a C average in College and look where America is today under his 8 year watch. We all got screwed here and abroad.
Very discouraging to see how expectations for our kids have deteriorated, thus explains how foreigners are quickly taking over all the high paying jobs and leaving the low end bump and grind jobs to us Americans. I mean top flight High Tech Companies are having to import talent from India and Asia to fill high paying jobs here in America.
When are we going to push our kids like they do in nearly all the rest of the world when it comes to education?
Confirmation of why I need to safe every dollar of my disposable income for my kids private education instead of being able to spend them at local businesses to help the economy.
7:31 PM on February 19th, 2009
“Look at our most recent departed President, had a C average in College and look where America is today under his 8 year watch. We all got screwed here and abroad.”
That has to be the most inane comment I’ve ever read on these boards. Performance in high school or college has nothing to do with performance later in life. I went to an Ivy League university and can’t count the number of wealthy, successful businessmen who came to speak to us and said they got terrible grades in college.
President Bush helped create thousands of jobs with his tax cuts and low interest rates, not to mention keeping the country safe. The country is in the shape it’s in because of liberals like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, whose compensation was tied to how many loans they gave out, hence the subprime mess. Yes, Bush deserves blame for not overseeing them enough, but I dare you to find anyone who saw this collapsing to this degree. Maybe two or three economists, but that’s it. Hindsight is 20/20.
Bush inherited a recession from Clinton, but that recession wasn’t Clinton’s fault, just as the dotcom boom wasn’t his doing, either. The free market created the dotcom boom, and stupid business plans created the dotcom bust. It would’ve busted whether Bush or Gore was in office.
Fact is, 3 years ago homeowners were enjoying enormous equity and a strong economy, coincidentally when that President with a C average was in charge. The President’s role in a boom or bust economy is very overrated. It’s more the ebb and flow of the successes and failures of America’s CEO’s. And thanks to Clinton’s lazy stance on terrorism, it grew under him and snapped under Bush. And it will grow under Obama and snap under the Republican who replaces him in 2012 when people are fed up with all this wasteful spending.
3:21 PM on February 20th, 2009
my bad as I should not have used the Bush analogy to rile up Republican diehards.
I get your point, somewhat. Bill Gates is for one didn’t even have a C average as he dropped out and look where he is today. He may have more wealth than all of Dublin combined. With that said and what you said about numerous CEOs who admitted they did not do well and didn’t have high grades in school. These success stories though are few and far in between, not sure of what the ratios are but is it one in every 1000 or 10000 C average or high school drop out student or is it even worst? So you are saying by rewarding and putting a C average student on a pedestal at Dublin High is OK? If the ratio was only 1in 10,000 C students or dropouts (to be conservative) actually makes it to a high ranking job executive job then at Dublin High with approximately 1500 students we’d have 1 C average or dropout success story every 6 or 7 years? That is not a good return on our tax dollars for education.
I am sure if there was a headcount or survey of the CEOs, CFOs and related Executives of all firms large and small, you will no doubt find more that did well in School throughout their lives and graduated with honors then those who didn’t or barely made it through with a C average. There will be more Stanford, MIT, Ivy League grads in these high ranking job categories then there are ones who had Cs or dropped out. On the flip side you will undoubtedly find more C average students and drop outs working low paying, bump and grind type jobs than there are ones who did quite well in school and end up in the same.
Please please please, do not question or belittle the need to not only graduate from school but to do extremely well. It does not guarrantee success but it does put your kid in a much better starting position than the ones who didn’t do well or did it at all.
Yeah the tanking of the economy cannot be blamed on any one person or President, I’d have to agree. You did also say though that “It’s more the ebb and flow of the successes and failures of America’s CEO’s”. Well I’m sure what you said about what you heard at that IVY League University is indeed true. It may well have been these same CEOs that spoke there that were running and are still running many of our companies to the ground.
2:11 AM on February 21st, 2009
To John Zukowski,
I am surprised by your reporting that the school board decided not to look at yet another Advanced Diploma. What we decided was that a third diploma is not needed now because there are more important matters for staff to work on. With the state finally approving a bad budget, we will lose over 6 million dollars as a district over a 3 year period. Having staff focus on preventing that from impacting our goals to maintain our high grad requirements (and the practical learning needed to meet them) is the right thing to do. Also, having staff focus on improving classroom assessment, intervention programs, new AP classes, and improving teacher capabilities is also more important than another diploma to hand out at graduation.
WE DID however agree to look at another Advanced Diploma later in the year or next year, once we get out of hot water financially. So on that you missed the point. Check the TV30 video tapes.
With our rigorous new grad requirements settling in around 2012, a Diploma with Distinction recognizes high achievement for more and more of our students. After talking to local colleges, here is what we learned:
* The state of California does not recognize “Advanced Diplomas”.
* The cold hard facts are that universities and employers look at high school transcripts, not made up diplomas. Test scores, grades, extra-curricular and volunteer activities are more important to them.
Finally, there are some who wish to introduce an international baccalaureate diploma to the mix. When people can tell me where we will get the $200,000 to run it annually, I may consider it. Like with many folks, it isn’t hard at times to place a cost/benefit factor to some of these things with the key benefits for kids the driving philosophy.
John B. Ledahl
LedahlJohn@Dublin.k12.ca.us
7:35 PM on February 21st, 2009
I can’t believe Mr. Ivy League turned a discussion of academics into a defense of scumbag Bush. To be clear Bush lied to us about Iraq, spent a Trillion to fight his Daddy’s war, ruined our diplomatic presence around the world, failed to get our real enemy for 9/11 (Bin Laden) and allowed his equally scumbag VP to expose a CIA agent’s cover. I could go on all night, but to defend Bush is too laughable.
8:18 PM on February 21st, 2009
To Anonymous, 2/21/09 1835 hours, you started it by bringing up Bush. I concur with Mr. Ivy League. Please, go on all night…amuse me.
10:20 PM on February 21st, 2009
Easily amused at other people’s sakes. Sounds like a Bushie…
10:19 AM on February 22nd, 2009
I agree with anonymous February 20, 2:21PM. Yes some have made it to astounding success despite their deficiency in school or lack of schooling altogether. We cannot though set the bar so low as Cs or even Bs for our kids as really the Bill Gates of the world are few and far in between.
12:05 AM on February 23rd, 2009
Come on. Can’t the political pundits focus on the question at hane regarding whether Dublin High schould offer an Advanced Diploma?
I watched the meeting and had to laugh when Jennifer Henry claimed that as a hiring manager it would make no difference in her decision? I doubt she hires much and who would even want to work for her anyway?
For those of you who do hire people how would you decide between two otherwise equal candidates? Would the one who earned an Advanced Diploma stick out above the other? I have to believe so.
UC colleges don’t recognize this, Mr. Ledahl? Can’t you think beyond California schools? Besides, don’t UC school look for the classes that should be required for this Advanced Diploma? So, why not give them something to aim for? Do you really think it is better to fool them with the very distinctive “C’s or better” Diploma? What will you tell all these distinctive graduates when they get turned down from every college but Las Positas?
Budget issues getting the way? Well this certainly is a concern. But come on. Anyone with even a cassual understanding of high school and college admissions should be able to tackle this one in about 15 minutes.
Well, whenever the Board decides to give smart students something to shoot for that will actually get them into college count on my vote FOR an Advanced Diploma.
1:49 AM on February 27th, 2009
I chose to think some about the remarks and thoughts on Advanced Diploma from Anonymous (hard to say when he spoke) before responding to them. The idea of a third diploma to address student needs is not a dumb idea. I believe people advocating it have the kids futures at heart. I think they feel it would benefit them.
I don’t think it will hurt them, but I – at this point anyway until we do more homework – don’t think it will be incrementally valuable.
Something relative newcomers to Dublin don’t usually know is that MANY of our graduates have gone to Princeton, Columbia, Stanford, Cal, Yale, and many other prestigious schools over the years. Of course, many have attended UC, CSU, NY State Universities (Regents level), and pretty much every notable higher education institution. They did it based on their work – AP courses, high GPA, community work, sports, and more that make them well rounded scholars. (Yes, I agree any Advanced Diploma should reflect a higher standard of work). They did it based on family values and cultures, teacher motivation, and self esteem where they built further success based on previous success. They did it at Dublin High for decades. Obviously, we want more and more students to develop the skills and knowledge to reach higher than before. Much more.
The recent increase in our graduation requirements is merely step one in getting more of our graduates at the UC or better level. The real work is continuing to put in place proven programs, well trained teachers, and intervention programs to catch kids from failing.
The reality is we have taken a few steps backward very recently. Because of the severe budget cuts, we have to slow down the impementation of the new grad requirements. If cuts go the way I expect, one key area will suffer – teacher professional development and collaboration. Something has to give and this is probably one key area of loss. Can you see that this will hurt our efforts to continue to improve learning?
Yes, Anonymous (Isn’t it really time you stand behind your well thought out statements with our knowing your name?)we should think outside California and I do. We do give smart students something to shoot for. The smart ones and their families know what it takes to get into great universities, and it isn’t a trophy diploma, its the learnings and student records that get them in. Despite that, when our stretched staff has time to work out the diploma question, I will analyze and help move forward with the best decision – even if that is a third diploma.
I will be back soon to ask for all your help in our battle over losing $6M over a three year period. And I don’t necessarily mean more money. Its time we told the state politicians what we want and when we want it. Dropping to
50th in nationwide spending levels isn’t the answer for California. We, the people, need to fix our government systems. Don’t you agree?
John Ledahl
LedahlJohn@Dublin.k12.ca.us
2:33 PM on March 2nd, 2009
At first I was wondering at why the Irish educational system was so much like the American one until I finally caught on that this is a town in California!
Regarding the advanced HS diploma, I’d definitely support such a measure pretty much anywhere… When I was in high school, the availability of such a program probably would have encouraged me to stay in, rather than going for my GED because high school felt like a waste of time and energy.
2:54 PM on August 28th, 2009
Hi, I’ve heard the School Board decided to continue exploring the Advanced Diploma option for Dublin High School. I think it’s a great initiative for motivating/rewarding hard-working students. I also believe such a program would attract the attention of better colleges both in and outside California. It’s about choices.. and it sounds like it’s a matter of setting the criteria and determining the requirements based on the existing courses. The District and the School Board can even ask volunteer help from the parents/businessman and form a committee for this task. There are great minds living in Dublin.