What Makes a Great High School?
The Around Dublin Team recently stumbled across an article from US News & World Report listing 2009′s Best High Schools in America. The term “great schools” gets thrown around quite a bit, so it was interesting to see how US News & World Report defined the best high schools in America. Here were the criteria:
- Performance on State High School Exams – high schools with students scoring higher than their state’s average for math and reading exam scores (adjusted for disadvantaged students).
- Performance of Disadvantaged Students – high schools meeting criterion #1 and also having their disadvantaged students score higher than their state’s average for math and reading proficiency exam scores.
- College Readiness Performance (only applied to schools meeting criteria #1 and #2) – a measure that looks at each high school’s: a) % of 12th graders taking an Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate test; and b) average performance on the Advanced Placement or International Baccalaureate test.
So how did local high schools fare compared to the rest of the nation?
- Mission San Jose in Fremont received a Gold medal and was #60 in the nation (#1 non-charter public high school in CA).
- Amador Valley and Foothill in Pleasanton received Silver medals.
- California High in San Ramon received a Silver medal.
Proponents of this set of evaluation criteria will point to the simple virtue of only looking at math, reading, and Advanced Placement and International Baccalaureate test statistics. Others argue that these criteria are not well-rounded enough because they do not take into account disciplines such as science, art, music, band, athletics, and entrepreneurship.
Please check back on the Around Dublin Blog for part two in this series looking at some of the common characteristics shared by Gold Medal schools.
7:27 AM on June 18th, 2009
Hi, John,
One correction: Mission San Jose High is not #1 public high school in CA, arguably #1 in San Francisco Bay Area. Pacific Collegiate Charter in Santa Cruz is ranked #3 in the nation. University High in Fresno is ranked #45 in the nation.
Thanks for posting this. It is very good to get the discussions going about how to improve Dublin High's ranking. As you know, Dublin High is not even in the Bronze list.
1:16 PM on June 18th, 2009
Maybe we should have a charter high school in East Dublin. Quite a few charter schools made it to the Top 100 List.
2:27 PM on June 18th, 2009
Is it easier and cheaper to establish a Charter school? Any expert opinions?
2:46 PM on June 18th, 2009
If you dig down into the US News & World Report data, you will discover that Mission San Jose HS is ranked as the #9 public high school in the country, and #1 in California. That excludes magnet schools and charter schools, so we're just talking about traditional public high schools. If MSJ was a competitive magnet school like Lowell HS in San Francisco, it would probably be the top public high school in the country.
Don't get me wrong — I'm not a big fan of MSJ HS. In fact, after 19 years in the Mission San Jose district of Fremont, we moved to Pleasanton in 1999 so our daughters would NOT go to MSJ HS, because we wanted a more balanced environment for them. But there is no arguing the fact that, by most academic measures, MSJ HS is one of the very top public high schools in the country. Its positive effect on property values in the MSJ district has been huge. High-performing high schools like Foothill, Amador Valley and San Ramon Valley have also had dramatic positive effects on property values in their districts. In contrast, the performance of Dublin HS has had, in my humble opinion, a significantly detrimental effect on property values in Dublin.
Tim Hall
Dublin, CA
4:17 PM on June 18th, 2009
Tim,
It seems like you have a lot of knowledge about public high schools. What is the difference between Magnet, Charter, and Traditional public high schools? Thanks for your help.
I totally agree with you the mediocre high school in Dublin is probably the only reason for lower property value.
6:40 PM on June 18th, 2009
Hi Anonymous June 18, 2009 4:17 PM,
John is working on an article on the differences amongst the different types of schools. After seeing how many of the top 100 high schools are not the traditional high schools, we are curious as well. Thank you.
1:36 AM on June 19th, 2009
Aha, someone has finally mentioned the “C” word on this blog! Now that the cat is out of the bag, I can reveal that a small group of Dublin parents & concerned citizens has been privately researching & discussing a Charter High School in east Dublin for almost a year. This effort originated when it became crystal clear last year that the school board, most of whose members are well-meaning & sincere in their desire to improve Dublin HS but are hamstrung by some awful decisions made by previous boards, does not believe that it is possible to do what is clearly in Dublin’s best interest — to build a high school on the east side of town.
I have refrained from raising the charter school issue on this blog until now, so as not to agitate those who believe that there can never be enough students in Dublin to support two high schools. On the contrary, Dublin’s projected population of 60K to 70K would clearly support two schools, just like our similarly-populated neighbors, IF the schools were good enough to ATTRACT families instead of DRIVING THEM AWAY to our neighboring cities. Unfortunately, that’s a very big “IF”!
Regrettably, it appears that there are some in Dublin who prefer to settle for a solitary less-than-outstanding high school out of concern that a high school in east Dublin will somehow decimate Dublin HS. It’s as if they believe that the best way to improve Dublin HS is to rely on an ever-increasing influx of students from east side families to elevate the school’s performance. What these parents fail to understand is that what they are hoping for — significant numbers of high-performing kids from the east side crossing town to attend Dublin HS — is very unlikely to ever happen. It’s sort of a chicken-or-egg situation — in the absence of a top notch high school in Dublin, parents seeking a superior school within a tolerable driving distance from home will move elsewhere. As a result, the high-performing students that some are hoping for will never arrive. Paradoxically, if Dublin HS magically became an outstanding school, it would attract far more students than it could accommodate, thus driving families elsewhere. So in either case the hypothetical east side student population will be ending up somewhere else.
Continued in my next comment…
Tim Hall
Dublin, CA
1:59 AM on June 19th, 2009
Here is Part 2 of my comment about a charter high school in east Dublin…
Creating a charter college prep high school in east Dublin (I like the name Tassajara Prep) would take a concerted effort by parents and others interested in improving education. It would not be a trivial process, but it would be worth it for the sake of our kids. The effort would likely be made more difficult by the opposition of some parents on the west side as well as the majority of district officials & board trustees. Unfortunately, the district is granted the power, by the state, to approve or deny a petition for a charter high school, and the district and trustees have repeatedly expressed their opposition to a high school on the east side. District officials would not like the idea of a public high school in Dublin that is under parental control and NOT under district control. They would likely attempt to instill fear, uncertainty & doubt in the community by claiming that there is insufficient funding available for a charter school, not enough students to support it, no proper facility to house the school, not enough students for AP classes, and so on. Just be aware that those same specious arguments have been used by practically every school district in California that now has a charter school.
Because of district opposition, charter school organizers would almost certainly have to take the route that many California charter schools already have — getting the county or state office of education to overrule the local district’s denial. California has a pretty good set of laws for charter school establishment, so it’s rather ironic that it puts the power of approval precisely where it least belongs — in the hands of the very people who will lose control if the charter school is established. It seems like a conflict of interest, but that’s the law. Still, if east Dublin parents (as well as other residents & businesses that support the idea) became highly motivated and well organized, they would succeed in creating a superlative charter high school that would complement Dublin HS and be the envy of other districts. This charter school would offer Dublin parents on both sides of town the choice to have their kids attend a nearby high school, resulting in huge reductions in energy costs, cross-town traffic, and travel time. The charter school would attract new families to Dublin, keep existing families from moving, and transform Dublin’s academic reputation into a city known for its outstanding high schools. This would result in the improvement of ALL of Dublin’s schools. Lastly, the charter high school would contribute to the revitalization of Dublin’s economy and the rebound of its real estate market.
Tim Hall
Dublin, CA
8:34 AM on June 19th, 2009
This is very good information. Thank you, Tim, for posting this.
I'm still absorbing a lot of this information, but I would like to make a comment about Dublin being known for it's academic reputation. Specifically, you wrote "This charter school will transform Dublin's academic reputation, turning it into a city known for its outstanding schools."
Dublin IS known for it's academic reputation. Since Dougherty, Fallon and Green were established, the academic performance had increased dramatically. Now before anyone says anything about East Vs. West, I would also like to add that Wells Middle School and Fallon (the middle school portion) are excellent, high performing schools as well.
It's really in the high school level that we lack the competitiveness and academic performance of the Pleasanton or San Ramon high schools. One could also argue that it's the Dublin kids that also continue to bring up the academic performance levels of Pleasanton and San Ramon since our families move there for high school!
Thanks for listening.
11:45 AM on June 19th, 2009
Tim, Thank you so much for the comments. If I share the same view with you on the education issue, how should I get involved with the Charter school stuff? Thanks again.
11:59 AM on June 19th, 2009
Perhaps we should look to what Livermore has done:
http://www.independentnews.com/fullstory1.php?arch_id=426
They already have a charter school somewhere, but that school does not have a high school component:
http://www.lvcs.org
Here is what they have to say about themselves:
"The Livermore Valley Charter School is a public school in the city of Livermore, California. Parents and educators worked together to create a school of choice which embraces the best proven and innovative teaching techniques in order to best teach the children of the 21st century.Our charter has been renewed by the SBR through June 30, 2013."
So far so good…
12:53 PM on June 19th, 2009
Tim,
As a parent in East Dublin, I look forward to more information as to how I can get involved in making this Charter HS a reality. Otherwise we are looking to move out by the time our newborn is ready for elementary school. We love Dublin but the level of education at the HS level is less to be desired. My wife, niece and nephews are all graduates of MSJ in Fremont, a great school although it lacks the cultural diversity as you eluded to. We can only envy though of the success they have and the affects they have on home values there. Even today in this economy builders are still breaking grounds on new SFRs in that District, the demand is still there.
If we stay in Dublin, really Dublin HS is not and will never be an option for our child thus the board can kiss the state funds for my child goodbye as they will never get a dollar. Our only options is Quarry Lanes, Valley Christian or move out. Same sentiment I am sure of many Dublin Residents, thus the affect on home values compared to our neighbors. We have similiar demographics, similiar weather, similiar traffic, we have a much newer infrastructure than our neighbors, then why are our homes of similiar size significantly lower in value than those in our neighboring cities?
A glimmer of good news about the possible Charter School option, our family and our neighbors will be on the lookout for more information on how to get involved. As I said we love Dublin but our Child's education 1-12 is non negotiable, as a parent we will do what we can to give her the best education possible. I know many parents will agree on this point thus the continued flight to other cities for those families with kids reaching school age. I luckily have a few years to go thus still have some hope of being able to remain in Dublin.
Board members are shortsighted in thinking they would reap benefits from more state dollars for the heads of E. Dublin students, how can they when many are moving out or going to private schools instead. Dublin is not only losing state funds for the lost students, they are losing the fabric that would keep this City strong for decades to come, that fabric is the traditional families that are reluctantly leaving Dublin.
2:20 PM on June 19th, 2009
Anonymous on June 19, 2009 12:53 PM:
Just relax a little bit. Dougherty, Green, and Fallon are very good schools, on par with schools in Pleasanton or San Ramon. It is just the high school that is the problem. So you still have about 10 years to decide whether to stay or leave.
Do not get me wrong. I am in the same camp as you. I want a new public high school in East Dublin as well. I am just trying to cheer you up a little bit here:-)
2:58 PM on June 19th, 2009
Tim,
Thank you for the very good information you provided.
I am also interested in this topic. We also have a newborn and wanting to stay in Dublin. I live in the east side of Dublin. Anything that I can do to help, let me know, count me in.
3:14 PM on June 19th, 2009
It seems to me that whenever the topic of high school is in discussion, we express opinions and then the discussion eventually dies down.
It will be great if we can have a forum outside this blog so that we can actively pursue the goal of a 2nd school and watch/monitor the progress of Dublin HS. I just understand why these are mutually exclusive.
3:57 PM on June 19th, 2009
I think Tim would be the perfect lead person for the cause of 2nd public high school (most likely Charter). Can we create an email list or Facebook group or whatever to get more East Dublin parents involved? I believe the more people involved, the more power we have.
Tim, please let us know what you think. We would all be eager to make contributions.
4:08 PM on June 19th, 2009
I'm open to have a separate forum on this so it'll be more focused. But I think we need to meet in person to have something like this so we can identify a realistic and tangible goal. We definitely need Tim or John to lead or counsel us on this matter. I think that would be a good start.
4:10 PM on June 19th, 2009
Count me in, I'll look out for more info to get involved. I agree with a previous comment that Green and Wells are on par with our neighbors but with that said, it would be tough on a child to be pulled to another district after 8th grade and having to be a freshman in a High School with no friends. He or she would lose all the friend gained from grades 1-8 if having to move to San Ramon for example to attend HS there. It is dramatizing enough to be a freshman in HS let alone be a complete stranger to everyone with no familiar faces if one had to switch districts between 8 and 9th grade. I cannot do that to my child thus at grade 1 our family needs to make a decision and stick with it. Private or move along.
4:15 PM on June 19th, 2009
I agree with Santhosh, we cannot let this topic die down and go to sleep like all the other times. My kids are not getting any younger, so as those of our neighbors who are facing the same issue.
Thank you to anonymous June 19, 2009 2:58PM. I will try and cheer up, at least now there is a glimmer of hope. Although the odds are stacked against us if we ban together with more than just words on this blog maybe it can happen.
4:25 PM on June 19th, 2009
It may be possible to rally some assistance or support from housing developers too. As I can only imagine how much easier of a selling point for their products if there was a tangible plan in place for either a Charter or District sponsored HS in E. Dublin. I'm sure that the question of where the HS is and how it ranks is one of the first questions asked by families before they pluck down nearly a $1mm for a home. In Fremont people are willing to pay a premium per square footage, even for a shack just to be in the MSJ district.
Wallis Ranch or Braddock and Logan would be ideal as they aren't in construction yet or have years to go before buildout. Others like Toll or Lennar may not benefit as they are near the tail end of their developments.
Build a top notch school and they will indeed come, on the other hand if we don't the outflow will continue and intensify as young families continue to grow and start to look elsewhere as their kids approach HS.
I'll wait for your lead Tim or John or both.
8:45 PM on June 19th, 2009
I am completely in favor of having a high school in East Dublin. However, I want to express my view that sending a child to Dublin High is not a death sentence as it seems to be talked about in here. Seriously, I think the attitude about this is bothersome. Sure, Dublin High isn't as awesome as surrounding communities. My husband went to one of the top high schools in the country and the competitiveness was crazy. Frankly, I'm not sure if I am interested in having my child be in that kind of environment. Call me crazy, but that's how I feel.
2:32 PM on June 20th, 2009
It is my understanding the Dublin Schools lost a couple of million dollars last year from the state and are cutting over $3 million this year. Plus more cuts next year. How would we maintain our current steady improvement in all schools if we started a charter high school? Are people willing to pay more?
5:05 PM on June 20th, 2009
yes, absolutely. I am prepared to pay more for a similiar home in SR or Pleasanton or stay here in Dublin and pay 4-8K a year for private school. Why not then for a top notch Charter School? Our child's education is priority one for our family, non negotiable.
5:07 PM on June 20th, 2009
Competition or competitive environment is what brings the best out of people. How are our kids to compete at Stanford, Harvard or even UC Berkeley if they don't have what it takes to compete. Most classes are graded on a curve so you must beat out your competition to get the grades.
5:09 PM on June 20th, 2009
June 19, 8:45 PM. Comments like this make me even more concerned and convince me Dublin High is not for us. We will set the bar very high for our kids as they will need it to make it in this world, not lower it so they can just feel good and cozy and comfortable.
5:14 PM on June 20th, 2009
To the gentleman willing to pay more. Using Windemere as an example, start up a Mello Roos taxation process for the East side. You get a new high school, the rest of Dublin doesn't suffer. Probably only cost per family about $10,000 a year. Of course, it is harder to sell your home there due to the extra tax. I say you should go for it.
5:55 PM on June 20th, 2009
I used to be bothered by all this talk about how bad Dublin High is. I get the feeling that most of the naysayers know very little about the school other than API scores, but that's fine. Of course that's the only measure we should be looking at. Go take a look at other schools around the bay area, then tell me how bad Dublin High is.
That's fine if you don't send your kids there. There will be more room for other students to enjoy the unbelievable new facilities when they're completed.
9:37 PM on June 20th, 2009
Anonymous on June 20, 2009 5:55 PM:
I am confused about your comments. Are you bothered or not? You used to, but not now?
You tell us how good Dublin High is. How does it compare with high schools in San Ramon and Pleasanton? Let's put API score aside for now, what is better in Dublin High? Do not put your head in the sand so you can feel good. Isn't it a good thing that East Dublin has a new high school so you can enjoy all the new facilities in Dublin High as much as you want?
9:54 PM on June 20th, 2009
Yeah. I try to refrain from posting as long as I possibly can but I'm stubborn. I'm not against building a high school in east Dublin. I'm bothered by people crapping all over DHS. I know good things are going on there. Teachers are doing their best, and the kids are just amazing. Dublin is a place that teachers in the bay area would love to work in, and I know that for a fact. Why do you think that is? API scores? The atmosphere and the vibe at Dublin, amongst students and faculty alike, is very positive. That's how I know Dublin is a great place. There is no other place that I'd rather teach in.
Besides…how can you be so sure the high school in east Dublin will be so much more superior?
11:18 PM on June 20th, 2009
As soon as you folks come up with land, $100M to build it and $4M a year to run it I say build your new school. Until then, do not take shrinking funds from our kids across town – East and West. If you try I can guarantee there will be a fight by parents in every neighborhood in Dublin to keep those funds.
An alternative for you is to build a small private school for your elite kids who would suffer going to a completely renovated Dublin High that is currently attracting the best teachers around California.
2:17 AM on June 21st, 2009
Food for thought on high schools in the valley
API Rank – School – API Score – Avg SAT Score – Medal From World News Report
390-Miramonte-916-1805-Silver
451-Campolindo-909-1769-Silver
635-Acalanes-896-1744-Silver
744-Dougherty-891
781-Monte Vista-888-1688-Silver
944-Foothill-878-1681-Silver
1112-San Ramon-868-1708-Silver
1127-Amador-867-1669-Silver
1148-California-866-1688-Silver
1631-Las Lomas-844-1677-Silver
2933-Dublin-798-1588-X
3606-Granada-777-1626-X
3855-Livermore-770-1633-X
11:23 PM on June 21st, 2009
Like they say…location, location, location. Remodeling can only do so much.
11:39 PM on June 21st, 2009
Much more superior? Dougherty, Green, and Fallon. Need I say more?
12:46 AM on June 22nd, 2009
Just wondering, do charter schools have athletic programs? I'm hoping my two boys will get involved in athletics at Dublin High in a few years. Without athletics, they would find school boring.
9:19 AM on June 22nd, 2009
Isn't it interesting that the schools are ranked almost in exact order of the income level of their communities.Most high income parents are highly educated which leads to expectations of their children.The teachers at schools such as Miramonte are not better than the teachers at Dublin or Livermore as a whole.They do have a little more talented or driven group of students to work with.The test scores reflect the students not the school.Your child if motivated will receive just as good as education at Dublin as Mission San Jose if they want to work.
10:29 AM on June 22nd, 2009
June 22, 2009. There it is right there…the level of involvement of the parents. As a teacher, I see this all the time. There's only so much the school's facilities and faculty can do. If parents aren't overseeing the progress of their kids OUTSIDE of school, then those kids probably won't do as well…generally speaking.
11:13 AM on June 22nd, 2009
Anonymous on June 22, 2009 9:19 AM:
"Your child if motivated will receive just as good as education at Dublin as Mission San Jose if they want to work."
I actually do not quite agree with this. The thing is when you are in a competitive environment, most likely it will make you more driven and motivated. So it tends to bring the best out of you. That is probably what a good school does.
11:43 AM on June 22nd, 2009
June 22, 2009: Your theory works with high-performing students. Fact of the matter is, not all students are high-performing, even at Amador, Foothill, etc. The kids that are somewhere in the middle or lower-performing have different motivations, and I think that with that type of population, motivation spurred on by parents can be more effective. It must be encouraged at home.
11:52 AM on June 22nd, 2009
Anonymous on June 22, 2009 11:43 AM:
"…I think that with that type of population, motivation spurred on by parents can be more effective. It must be encouraged at home."
I totally agree with you on this part. Parents need to get heavily involved in their children's education.
12:15 PM on June 22nd, 2009
Another major difference at some of the higher scoring schools is that because they have a more motivated population they are able to offer more challenging classes that other schools don't.
12:25 PM on June 22nd, 2009
As far as offering more AP classes, available funds and a larger school population are factors as well. As Dublin continues to grow (and the economic situation hopefully improves) Dublin High will offer more and more AP and specialized classes.
I think one thing a lot of people overlook is that it's not just having a ton of AP classes that dictates a successful school. Having the smaller, remedial classes to help those students that need more one-on-one tutorial goes a long way towards improving general performance of the ENTIRE population. As far as I know, Dublin is also looking into offering more classes of that nature as well.
12:50 PM on June 22nd, 2009
Only if we can keep the students currently going to Doughterty, Fallon and Green from continually jumping districts then Dublin High will eventually be half decent instead of satisfied mediocrity, content with the one off sucess stories instead of it being the norm with the majority of the student body as it is at the top schools.
The $100 Million to build and land would not have been an issue had City Planners and previous School Boards did not sell us out to Developers. We would have had the land set aside at developers expense and would have levied fees on them to finance the construction as we've done with Wells and Green. Who cares if they would have passed the cost onto new homebuyers, we are still below value today compared to our neighbors. If people are lining up to buy pricier homes in Pleasanton or SR in inferior locations compared to Dublin just for the schools, they would have still lined up to buy in Dublin even if it meant paying more to finance a High School.
12:51 PM on June 22nd, 2009
BTW: to the mention of Mello Roos, only in Windemere, not in Gail Ranch where we are looking to follow our neighbors.
12:51 PM on June 22nd, 2009
Just as there are students who demand extra resources because they require remedial help, we have high-achieving students who need to be challenged with college-level curricula. Why shouldn't they be able to apply their share of the operating funds directly to their advanced academic pursuit during normal school hours? The often-proposed solution is for these kids to take classes at Cal, Hayward State, or Los Positas on their own time using their own resources. Now that I see charter schools as a possibility, I think it's very fair for Dublin's top students to be given the option of taking college-level courses right in Dublin through the charter school system. If cities with less means can do it, so can Dublin.
People who oppose the concept of charter schools will demonize those of us who do by saying that we will be taking money away from an already cash-strapped system. What they won't say is that:
1. They'd lose the money anyway, if we are to leave the district;
2. Although fewer students will mean a reduced level of income for the school district, fewer students will also translate into a reduced level of expenses;
3. Most charter schools are very limited in their focus. For parents who want their kids to get a well rounded education, the obvious choice will still be Dublin High School. In this respect, the charter and the public high schools complement each other very well;
I'd be interested to hear from those parents involved in the Livermore effort to get a charter high school. I think the Tri-Valley can learn a lot from their effort and passion.
12:58 PM on June 22nd, 2009
I agree with the last comment completely. It is money the district wouldn't ever see in the first place if kids continue to move to other districts after 8th grade.
Nearly all of my neighbors in the Laurels that have kids in public Schools have moved out to SR or Pleasanton, leaving behind SFR rentals and tenants who can care less about the neighborhood or community. HOAs are too powerless to enforce anything other than to send out warning letters. I may eventually have to do the same as selling is not possible right now. I'd have to downsize to buy a condo or townhouse in another district and rent out my larger Dublin home at a lost.
1:07 AM on June 23rd, 2009
To all those kids who graduated from Dublin High School and went on to Princton, Columbia, Harvard, Stanford. To those that became speech writers for the President of the US, or doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers – I applaud you all for your hard work and efforts. You set a great example for those who come after you.
1:34 AM on June 23rd, 2009
John Ledahl,
Do you have the statistic data about how many Dublin High students get into top national universities every year? I would really appreciate if you could share this information. Thank you very much.
10:07 AM on June 23rd, 2009
Getting into a top university from a lower performing high school is probably easier. I am sure Harvard would prefer a valedictorian from Dublin High than an average high performing student from SR/Pleasanton.
10:21 AM on June 23rd, 2009
I am not sure what the point Anonymous June 23, 2009 10:07 AM is trying to make. Is this person saying that because high-performing students from Dublin High School are so rare that a Dublin High valedictorian would be looked upon favorably by the top colleges, while high-performing students from Pleasanton and San Ramon are so commonplace, such that the top colleges would be less likely to accept them?
2:44 PM on June 23rd, 2009
I am sure that there are the exceptional that Graduated from Dublin High and went on to a top University and eventually became top Corporate Executives or successful Entrepreneur. Now if we were to do a percentage, how many from MSJ or Gund per graduating class vs Dublin High from 1990 to 2009 made it to such lofty status or were even able to get into the top Universities at all. I am sure if there was such a statistics it would be a landslide. A kid with an A grade from a top highly rate high school vs an A student from Dublin High could very well fare different at say Princeton. The non Dublin Hi Grade is likely more prepared for the rugged challenges ahead of them while the Dublin grad likely had to swim, struggle and sweat a bit more just to keep up. Reason is that the non Dublin grad was better prepared by being challenged with stiff competion form grades 9-12 at MSJ or Gund compared to Dublin where it less competitive or challenging.
I do appreciate John L. for always engaging residents regardless of our difference of views and opinions, fact or non fact.
2:48 PM on June 23rd, 2009
To Tim Hall,
I contnue to listen to your thoughts about an Eastside High School, as I have since meeting at your home last year. The facts haven't changed much since then, other than the fact education in California is being ravaged by politicians, and will for the foreseeable future.
You did say something that concerns me. In discussing a charter school (something that I believe has worked well in other cities) you stated – " the intractable & self-serving opposition of district officials & board trustees." As someone who no longer has children in the system, not interested in higher office like some on the eastside, and solely wants all the kids in the district to succeed, please tell me how my role is "self-serving."
2:49 PM on June 23rd, 2009
adding to anonymous June 23 1:34 AM.
Lets narrow it down to the top 15 universities, public or private in the U.S. It would be interesting also to see what avergage grades a Dublin Grad gets at these top universities vs a grad from a known top academic High School, public or private.
2:53 PM on June 23rd, 2009
self serving could mean more, like proving one's prophecy as being correct or by trying to prove that someone else's prophecy is incorrect.
In the case the prophecy that a Eastside HS does not work under at all, not in this lifetime or the prophecy that yes build it and they will come, or in East Dublin's case they will stop leaving us. We will stop bleeding students and families to other cities.
4:34 PM on June 23rd, 2009
Tracking student on their progress in college is almost impossible. It would have to be done solely through the efforts of the student and the high school. With all the cutbacks in education school counselors are not going to have the time to work these kinds of projects, especially since it is not required by the state and the impact on the high school is negligible.
4:45 PM on June 23rd, 2009
Some information about how to start a Charter school in California:
http://www.cacharterschools.org/faqs.html
Anyone wants to explore his/her entrepreneurship?
5:13 PM on June 23rd, 2009
I doubt anyone will rise up to help start a charter school. So far all I have seen are anonymous people calling on other people to do the work but are reluctant to start the effort themselves for whatever reason. Those of us who are happy with one public high school find all this discussion entertaining and are in no way worried. Let's move onto some other topic please.
5:58 PM on June 23rd, 2009
Hi Anonymous on June 23, 2009 4:45PM and 5:13 PM – Livermore will likely have a charter high school in time for the 2009-2010 school year. Around Dublin will be publishing an article in early July sharing Livermore Valley Charter School’s efforts to establish a charter high school.
Thx, John Z.
6:08 PM on June 23rd, 2009
Thank you very much, John.
Anonymous on June 23, 2009 4:45 PM
8:49 PM on June 24th, 2009
I wonder how many of you who have put down Dublin High School have spent anytime at the school? DHS is a good school and continues to improve. The facilities are becoming the envy of the Tri-Valley. Go by and visit the new Math/Science building. Most colleges would be lucky to have those facilities. Look at the stadium. NCS holds championships at the school because it is a top notch facility. When the rest of the facility is completed (all new classrooms, gym and theater) you will see that DHS is one of the finest facilities in the area.
As for the education, it is fantastic. The vast majority of our students go to college. If your child is smart enough to get into a top notch school, they can achieve that at DHS. Comparing API scores of various schools is not a good comparison. If you want to learn how to compare one school to another, call someone at the district office and they will be more than willing to explain.
I know there are good intentioned people on this blog but good intentions do not make up for lack of knowledge and there is an abundance of that on this blog.
8:50 PM on June 24th, 2009
I keep reading about the great flight of students from Dublin High School. Can anyone anwser why the number of students at the school continues to grow? I'm confused.
10:04 PM on June 24th, 2009
People keep raving about the facilities at DHS. What we care about is the academics. If I want a nice gym, I can join Club Sports. We may not know how to compare schools, perhaps US News can provide us with a report.
10:56 PM on June 24th, 2009
To: Anonymous June 24, 2009 8:49 PM
"…call someone at the district office and they will be more than willing to explain."
That would be too subjective. Of course, they will find all kinds of excuses to say how good the DHS is. US News & World Report should be much more objective (may not be perfect). If public high schools in Pleasanton and San Ramon can get the Silver Medals but DHS is not even in the Bronze list, that means there is a big achievement gap between these schools. Please do not try to deny the facts.
12:19 AM on June 25th, 2009
I predict that in a few years those families who moved away will regret it. There are new facilities being built, the highest grad requirements around, bringing in better teachers every year,and has become a melting pot of races, cultures, religions, and socio-economic levels. Sports, recreation, art, and music thrive here.
What it does not have are zombie-like creatures walking the halls like at Mission San Jose focusing on nothing but academics. No social life, no physical activities, nothing but study, classwork, and sleep. They graduate and go wild in the real world. We have all seen it. These students dominate that school and is a prime reason why they score so high. Life is to work hard, do well, and enjoy life. I hope Dublin High never gets like that.
7:01 AM on June 25th, 2009
Person that wants explanation on how better facilities can improve academics…seriously? This isn't obvious? Go and take a look at the new science classrooms with the brand new lab set-ups and equipment. Furthermore, every new classroom has up-to-date technology that teachers are absolutely raving about and how it makes their instructions so much more streamlined and efficient. You think facilities = new gym only? Or nicer looking buildings? Come on.
10:20 AM on June 25th, 2009
It is attitudes like those that stereotype high-performing students as zombies, no life, no physical activities which discourages students to excel. This is the exact reason why DHS has the API it has and the same exact reason why we need a high school with a different emphasis.
2:14 PM on June 25th, 2009
I asked this question before, but nobody answered me (including those claiming DHS is the greatest school on earth). Let's put API score aside temporarily for now, can you tell me what other programs (sports, music, whatever) are better in DHS compared with high schools in Pleasanton and San Ramon?
Let's not drag MSJ High School into this picture. What we care about most is the comparison with Tri-Valley schools. Thank you very much.
2:40 PM on June 25th, 2009
First off, I don't think anyone here proclaimed DHS as the greatest school on earth. Let's be real here. Second, I don't think anyone said that Dublin was necessarily better than Pleasanton or San Ramon. I think that what DHS supporters are saying (and heaven forbid anyone support the local high school here) is that Dublin is not the pile of crap that everyone here is making it out to be.
But to answer your question, DHS varsity girls basketball has been amazing for the past couple of years, better than the programs at Pleasanton and SR. The DECA team seems to do fairly well from what I recall. But I don't think this is really the point.
2:52 PM on June 25th, 2009
I see the words here, but what I hear is "we want our own school because we don't want those kids on the west side driving down our test scores". Dublin High is a very good school, a school that is on the rise. Programs are improving, cirriculum is expanding, facilities are on their way to being the best in the Tri-Valley. That is all anyone can ask.
My personal experience is that the kids at the school are hard-working, creative, ambitious and accepting of one another's differences. Passionate, dedicated parents are supporting programs of every type, giving of themselves with time and money.
DHS is not quite everything it could be, but I believe it's on the way. If you don't want to send your kids to DHS, don't. But don't disparage the families that do. We all want our kids to be a success. That knows no east-west boundary.
8:16 PM on June 25th, 2009
See the cover and inside story in the May 09 issue of Cash Register Magazine, a national school housing magazine. It showcases Dublin High School and its ambitious rebuilding implementation. The effort achieved a California HIgh Performance Schools certification -one more brick in the establishment of a new, exciting high school.
11:19 PM on June 25th, 2009
By August, we should know the 2009 API score of DHS. Let's see whether it has made any significant progress over last year. If it has, that is great, we see some hope there; otherwise, that would be really frustrating. No matter how much you claim DHS is becoming a better school, the actual number says it all.
10:07 AM on June 26th, 2009
I agree with Anonymous on June 25, 2009 2:52 PM totally. Now that we've established the why, perhaps we can stop talking about what DHS will or will not be and discuss the how.
11:02 AM on June 26th, 2009
To those of you who wonder how new, state of the art facilities will improve test scores…let's look at Green, Dougherty, Fallon. I know that you all want to think that your little east-side darlings are just so intellectually superior to all the kids on the west side. While it's true that parent education level has a big impact on students, I hate to break it to you, but there are many college educatated (even – gasp – doctors and lawyers) on the west side. But new facilities allow teachers to focus on teaching instead of on keeping the teaching materials away from the leaking roofs. New facilities are built with new technology in mind, so classrooms can fit multiple computers with cables neatly tucked away so that the kids are not continually tripping on them. New facilities attract the best and brightest teachers – why do you think so many teachers jumped from their old west side schools each time a new school opened on the east side? Trust me, it wasn't because they were so keen to deal with all the hyper-critical east-side parents.
A new, up-to-date, clean facility is calming. It promotes a positive attitude about academics and learning. Kids automatically respect the environment they are in and take their studies more seriously. It's the same phenomenon you see when you take a kid out of his "play clothes" and put him in a suit. His whole demeanor changes. The same thing happens when you take a group of kids out of a falling-down, dirty building and put them in a new, state-of-the art facility.
Then there is the whole numbers thing when you start talking about two high schools in Dublin (charter or traditional). A high school with a small number of students just can't offer as wide a variety of classes. I know you think that every one of your newborns will be taking GATE and AP classes when they get to high school, but statistics say this isn't so. State requirements account for a large part of their high school curriculum. Those courses must be taught. With a small student body, there can only be a small number of electives offered, because there just aren't enough students to fill a wide variety of electives. The more students, the more electives – more AP classes, more IB classes, more foreign languages, more advanced sciences, more opportunities for all students to take things that will look good on those Stanford, Harvard, UC Berkely apps.
Part of the reason that DHS doesn't have scores that are as competitive as our surrounding cities is that we don't have as large a student body. DHS has something like 1600 students. Cal High has 2400; Amador Valley has 2600. That's a whole lot more classes they can offer. As DHS continues to grow, there will be more and more classes offered that will benefit all of the students. A charter school would, by the very nature of charter schools, be small and limited in the classes it could offer.
I'm sure I'll get crucified here for this post, as it seems that this is mostly an East Dublin blog. And truthfully I don't care. But I stumbled upon this thread and felt compelled to post. It is so clear that new facilities have an impact on learning. I'm sure that Kim McNeely in the district office could provide you with published studies supporting that. Otherwise, why would the district bother? DHS has excellent teachers, and by the time your little ones are there it will have excellent facilities. As the student body continues to grow, new classes will be added. Our scores continue to improve and our curriculum continues to demand more from our students. Any student who wants to can get an excellent education at DHS. And by the way, there are plenty of motivated, college-bound students at DHS to provide that competition you are so concerned about.
11:03 AM on June 26th, 2009
I'd like to make one more point about the caliber of students between the east and west, because I'm getting tired of listening to the elitist east-side parents spew their arrogance about how much smarter they think their kids are than the kids on the west side. I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion, but I have to disagree. I had the opportunity to be an interviewer several years running at the district-wide elementary school science fair. I have interviewed at schools on both sides of town. I found it very interesting that by and large (and clearly this is a generalization and did not apply to all students) the kids on the east side had done projects that were straight off the internet. They followed step-by-step instructions to do some experiment or another. Their boards were very pretty – very neatly presented – but the kids had very little understanding of what their experiment actually did. It was quite clear that their was a lot of parental involvement in the science project. So much involvement, in fact, that most of the kids didn't really get what it was they had worked on. In contrast, the kids on the west side of town has slightly less polished project boards. It was clear they had done the layouts themselves, with a little less help. More of the experiments were of the "I wonder what would happen if I…" variety, instead of the "growing crystals step-by-step" variety. But the most striking difference was that the kids really understood what it was they had done. It was clear from talking to them that they THEMSELVES had done the experiment, and they had actually learned something. They hadn't been dragged through the experiment by a parent. Food for thought.
11:27 AM on June 26th, 2009
To: Anonymous June 26, 2009 11:02 AM
"Part of the reason that DHS doesn't have scores that are as competitive as our surrounding cities is that we don't have as large a student body. DHS has something like 1600 students. Cal High has 2400; Amador Valley has 2600. That's a whole lot more classes they can offer. As DHS continues to grow, there will be more and more classes offered that will benefit all of the students. A charter school would, by the very nature of charter schools, be small and limited in the classes it could offer."
This is not true at all. In fact, a lot of charter schools with much smaller student population made the Gold Medal List in the US News & World Report. You can check yourself.
Even for traditional public high schools, here are some numbers I got from Greatschools.net:
Miramonte High School: 1383 students – API score: 916
Campolindo High School: 1407 students – API score: 909
Acalanes High School: 1393 students – API score: 896
…just a few examples…
So please get your facts straight.
11:36 AM on June 26th, 2009
Anonymous at 11:02…nicely put. Better than I could've explained.
Anonymous at 11:27…while school size may not have as much to do with API like you're arguing, those schools are in fairly affluent areas where most students probably have highly educated parents who have a ton of control and input over their student's progress. Again, parental involvement can probably attest to the high scores.
11:52 AM on June 26th, 2009
As a grad from the DHS Class of 1997, I have to say that Dublin High will forever be a place that I had to grow up fast. I will always remember Mrs. Eversley, who at a time that I really could have been considered homeless, since I was living with friends for the last three years of my high school career, was a God send. In a time when I really could not afford anything, nor could my parents, Mrs. Eversley bought me a yearbook, two years in a row. When a friend of ours, who just graduated in 1994, was involved in a double homicide, our counselors, teachers and administration were openly there for those of us affected by this tragedy. When my brother Tommy was incarcerated for the crime of murder in the 2nd degree, when I was a freshman, Mr. Carpenter told me that his office was open for me. I am now 30 years old and was the first male in my family to graduate from high school and the first in my entire family to get a college degree. I now work for a jr. high school as Director of the ACCESS After-School Program. If it were not for all my family, friends and especially the compassionate staff at DHS, I could not sit here as a proud leader to our youth. After reading these blogs, I plan on returning to the district that, in all essence, helped raise me and do what I can as a teacher to lift up the negative views most people seem to have on this wonderful city called Dublin. So, what I want to know is, besides the "academics" of a charter school, what do they teach you about being a human being, since math and science can not teach you how to save a life during one of life’s unplanned and impossible situations to prepare for?
-Paul Ruiz
11:59 AM on June 26th, 2009
Just some more numbers for thought:
According to a 2007 estimate,
The median income for a household in Lafayette was $118,974,
The median income for a household in Moraga is $98,080,
The average income for a household in Dublin is $101,550,
the median income for a household in San Ramon was $111,604,
the median income for a household in Pleasanton was $113,345
So Dublin is not exactly far behind and Dublin's parents are heavily involved in their children's education too.
12:17 PM on June 26th, 2009
What about property values? Property taxes is a major component of school funding. Dublin is definitely on the bottom of that list.
12:23 PM on June 26th, 2009
That is exactly the point a lot of people have made. If you have better schools, the property values will be higher, right? The only reason Pleasanton and San Ramon has higher property value is because of their better schools.
12:28 PM on June 26th, 2009
So…if all these genius East Dublin children were to go to DHS, wouldn't that improve API scores, and eventually increase your property values? Problem solved!!
12:28 PM on June 26th, 2009
What is more important, property value or the value of our children?
12:39 PM on June 26th, 2009
Paul,
Are you saying public schools in Pleasanton and San Ramon are not teaching values to their children? How do you know they are not teaching better?
1:22 PM on June 26th, 2009
No, I was just commenting on all the talk about charter schools and the way DHS is being viewed as not having higher test scores than those in our surrounding cities. Honestly, I could care less about a student who gets straight A's, but if that student also took the time to talk to a homeless human or a veteran in a retirement home, then I will say that that is a good, unselfish student and I will commend those who helped raise him. I was also saying that property value should have no bearing on bringing up our youth, because it was all those who saw money as there number 1 source to happiness that put us in this horrible financial predicament. I mean, if education and money were so important, why in a country that is run by the supposed, highly educated and wealthy individuals, is going to shambles. Do not get me wrong, I love the USA and this state of California and thank God I am living here and no other place, but I just feel that our children are truly the last thing on our "leaders" agenda. Same with the whole idea of what a family can and should be.
1:43 PM on June 26th, 2009
I am sorry Paul, but your experiences from DHS of the murder and homicide is not one I would want my kids to live through.
1:43 PM on June 26th, 2009
I should also ad that I can not comment on the way the public schools of San Ramon and Pleasanton are raising their students, because I am not a product of those two cities, but I knew a few kids that lived there. I can say this though, growing up as a kid in low income house of Dublin and having so many friends in different levels of family income, the places I was able to be the most comfortable and felt the most welcome in, were all of them and that is because they were families in Dublin who cared more about the character of the person and not their grades or money, because they knew that all of that success can come later.
1:54 PM on June 26th, 2009
I want to comment on the "zombie-like creatures" comment. What about them? Let me give you a few examples of geeks:
Bill Gates, a geek, founded Microsoft, the richest man in the world
Jerry Yang, a geek, founded Yahoo, a billionaire
Larry Page and Sergey Brin, geeks, founded Google – the best high tech company in the world, billionaires
Chad Hurley and Steve Chen, absolutely geeks, founded YouTube, billionaires
Haven't they made great contributions to the society by creating so much wealth and so many high paid jobs?
Stereotyping any type of person is a bad, bad idea.
1:55 PM on June 26th, 2009
Nobody does, but you are missing my point. It was not the education that helped me through, but it was the compassion after the situation and you can not plan for those situations. I mean if everyone in the "upper-class" community of Columbine High School knew that those two boys were going to come to school and take so many lives, those families would not live there. If any of those college kids at Virginia Tech knew they were going to be shot while pursuing their higher education, they may have opted to go to UVA. Money and education can not solve everything, because even a castle can come down in an earthquake. It is how we teach the responsibility to those that have both, is what is most important.
1:56 PM on June 26th, 2009
Do people really believe the high API's of the East is due to the newer facilities?
Try looking at the student statistics.
1:57 PM on June 26th, 2009
I like how all anonymous from 1:43 got from Paul's story was something negative. You're totally right. DHS experiences homicide all the time. In fact, I wear a kevlar vest to work every day. I have a huge drawer filled to the brim with confiscated knives and guns.
2:24 PM on June 26th, 2009
Yeah, both of those situations that I had metioned, did not actually happen at DHS, but thank you Anonymous on June 26, 2009 1:57 PM, for understanding what I was saying.
2:40 PM on June 26th, 2009
I just feel the need to say one more thing. If building a new school truly was the answer to all of educations problems, why do we still build new schools? I mean to make a brash complaisant, if adding new facilities did actually work, why has our prison system gone to the dumps? For lack of a better word, though I could say another one. I mean the whole idea of prisons was to "rehabilitate," but now, it is used to house and forget about all those "offenders" of the law. When they are just human beings who, in reality, just got caught! Now, the majority of them are discarded and forgotten and moved around without any voice. Sort of like the kids in high school who are not up to par in grades and behavior, so they send them to Valley. We need to focus on what we have and build from there. Look at the housing economy, there is going to be a lot of empty new houses and communities out there.
4:44 PM on June 26th, 2009
It is really sad that just like any other threads about schools, this one also became one bashing DHS and/or bashing East Dublin residents.
If you really listen to complaints about DHS, most of them are really saying this:
1) I want DHS to be the a great school, comparable and even better than those in San Ramon/Pleasanton
2) I don't see how DHS is planning to get there. Will building new facilities solve our problem at DHS?
3) In the long run, DHS won't be sufficient for the students from Dublin. So, why are we not thinking about a new school now so that it can become a reality in the future.
As many shared in this forum, there are many great things about DHS. However, please understand that when someone wants to buy a house in Dublin, if they have kids – they look at how our schools are compared to our neighbors.
Have we done some sort of study to understand why DHS API is lower than rest of the schools in discussion?
I understand that we expect new facilities to improve things. I also heard that we have more teachers interested in teaching there. At the same time, based on feedback from old DHS students in this forum, they always had great teachers.
So, we really need to find out the root cause and as a community should figure out how to solve the problem instead of 'hoping' that new facilities/teachers will fix the problem.
I hope John Ledahl can give us some more details on these topics – how exactly, we are expecting DHS to become a top notch schools. What's the major factor that allows San Ramon/Pleasanton schools to perform better?
I am one of those who believes that kids irrespective of where they are coming from can excel given enough support and nourishment. As parents and and as a community, that's what we should do instead of creating our own islands in the community.
5:41 PM on June 26th, 2009
In reference to your comment on how you don't see how DHS is trying to improve API scores: they are. Trust me, teachers and admin are doing everything they can to emphasize the importance of the tests they take every spring. They emphasize pride in your school for displaying how strong the students are, pride in themselves for trying their best, etc etc. Teachers take precious days out of the limited schedule to prepare students for the tests by doing practice tests, reviewing old material, and so on. There were signs all over the school displaying the goal of 820. Teachers, in some cases, spent their own money on food and drinks for the kids during the long testing periods to keep them going. Believe me, DHS is doing all they can to improve.
As for how new facilities help…review messages above. It helps a great deal, and this is coming from a teacher that is still stuck in an old building.
6:04 PM on June 26th, 2009
Anonymous on June 26, 2009 5:41 PM，
Is API score 820 the goal for this year? Or is it the goal for the next five years? Why don't we set it higher, say, 850? Thanks for your comments.
6:13 PM on June 26th, 2009
820 was the goal set for this year (meaning the results DHS will get late this summer). Why don't we set it at 900? 910? Who cares. The point here is, and I think everyone can agree, that any sort of improvement is a step in the right direction.
6:48 PM on June 26th, 2009
Thanks for your reply. If 820 can be reached this year, I would feel we are making significant progress and that would be very encouraging. Let's wait to see the score this coming August.
11:03 PM on June 26th, 2009
To Santhosh
I will try to answer some of your questions, but I don't have all the answers either. I noticed we have spent a lot of time talking about DHS rather than answer the original question – What makes a Great High School. I believe John Z. and Tim Hall see the question secondary to getting an Eastside High School. Very self-serving!
I believe most people in town want the best for all our students and want DHS to be a great school.
There are a number of things going on to improve the school and as a trained educator I can see that the right things are being targeted, at least to my biased eye.
DHS is planning to get there by doing the following:
A. Completely redo all facilities. We are only a few years away from completion. Thanks to ALL citizens of Dublin. Having taught recently in an inner city high school in Hayward I can tell you the difference in the classrooms is startling. My most sophisticated equipment was an over head projector. I am not going to go into detail in what EVERY classroom has, but its on a par with most corporate boardrooms I've worked in. Completely wired, wireless , Whiteboards, Projectors etc. in every classroom. Just ask any Dublin parent. Any! And no, new facilities does not make a great high school alone.
B. Based on the geography, demography, and City growth plans any one in the know can see no more than 2500 kids at buildout. Many eastside folks attended board meetings to hear experts on this. If they are wrong it is not going to be by 1000 kids.
C. The new graduation requirements are higher than any high school around, although due to the budget cuts we had to push back on a couple of items for a year or two. These standards drive all activity – curriculum development, professional development, classroom learning, selection of programs to assess and teach, and tecaher hiring. Every thing done for the last few years has been to improve rigor at ALL our schools. Which leads me to the last point.
D. In order to improve high school student performance you have to have better prepared students entering the school. With classsize reduction, plus better math, english, science, and reading programs from K-8 grades the students entering are more ready to do better.
So I am happy to discuss this some more, but you folks are missing the bigger picture. We are in the process of losing multiple millions of dollars from our district budget, letting teachers go, reducing professional development, and so much more. Why aren't you excited about that? Tim Hall and John Z – why aren't you at board meetings asking how you can help? The rest of you need to come to our meeting Tuesday night to see what is being ravaged by our state politians. I doubt I'll see any of you there…Tim? John Z.?
11:08 PM on June 26th, 2009
One last thing. I am giving you my personal opinion based on what I know and what I have voted for as a trustee. I want you to ask the other trustees – David Haubert, Dan Cunningham, and Greg Tomlinson where they currently stand on the second high school issue. I want you to publish their answers in this blog. I can't imagine any of them agreeing with you, given our hards times, even though most of them live on the east side of town. Will you do that?
12:50 AM on June 27th, 2009
John,
Why not also ask Jennifer Henry? Oops, I forgot, she has not said anything of substance or taken a noticeable stand on as issue during her time in office.
5:52 AM on June 27th, 2009
Hi John Ledahl – first of all, is this the real John Ledahl? It seems like John L. usually includes his middle initial when responding on the comments. At any rate, I just wanted to share some of the articles that touch on the points you listed regarding Dublin High School:
On Facility Improvements
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2008/11/dublin-high-schools-math-science.html
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2008/12/update-on-dublin-high-and-other-school.html
On Graduation Requirements
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2008/12/dublin-high-school-aiming-for-1.html
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2009/02/should-dublin-have-advanced-diploma-for.html
Thx, John Z.
9:21 AM on June 27th, 2009
Sounds like real John L. to me:-)
Always so defensive and so stubborn…
12:40 PM on June 27th, 2009
To John Z.
Yes, John. It is my posting. I seldom post anymore so I left out my middle initial.
I do notice that you have put up questions on many of the issues and I applaud you for that. However, I believe that you foster the second high school issue in the face of opposing facts when we should ALL be focusing on working together. I wish you would recognize that.
To Anonymous June 27, 2009 9:21 AM
What you see as stubborness I see as resolution based on numerous reviews of the facts. I am still open to trying to bring some DHS programs to the east side, using existing facilties. I am open to looking at a Charter school when there are the resources to use in the future. I am open to innovation that pays for itself.
My "defenseness" is really a controlled anger at the convoluted argument being put forward by Tim Hall and others for a second high school. Besides the current facts – no land, diluted programs if there are 2 high schools, and a belief that ultimately there will not be enough students to fill the 2 schools – there is a more compelling, more immediate set of concerns. Let me be clear.
Due to huge, unreasonable revenue cuts from the state we have lost a couple of million dollars this year, $3.5M next year, and expect more cuts mid-year. We have let promising new teachers go, cut programs and professional development, and eliminated all frills and nice-to-haves. We have dramatically increased workload for administrative, classified, and certificated staffs. In order to maintain our improvement path forward (i.e. new grad requirements) we are reaching out to parents and others to help fill in the money gaps so music, media centers, athletics, etc. are not totally eliminated as it is in other districts.
And you want the district to build a new high school or start a charter school now? Please come to the board meeting Tuesday night and make your case. But bring a solution for how we will fund it on the one hand, and how it will not negatively impact any other school on the other hand.
Its been a frustrating year as I have seen so much of what we have built over the years destroyed with the stroke of a pen. That is the source of my anger and I apologize if that comes across stronger than I wish at times. Before you try to tear my arguments apart, will you stop and try to look at the total picture and see where we perhaps agree? If we don't start working together on this, we will have much less than we could.
And yes, all trustees should be asked where they stand on the 2nd high school issue. You can't call for transparency and not let people know where you stand on the critical issues.
1:42 PM on June 27th, 2009
I am surprised Castro Valley's API is higher than ours and Livermore is not far behind. Hmm…Mountain House probably have the newest facilities but their API's are not that impressive.
11:49 AM on June 30th, 2009
Dear John Ledahl,
(NOTE: I wrote the following comment a week ago in response to your initial postings, but before I finished editing it I was hit by a car while riding my bicycle on the Iron Horse Trail in Danville and have been out of commission since then. Now that I'm back online, I see that you've written some subsequent comments that are disparaging of me, my ideas and my motives. I'll kindly ignore those for this comment.)
———————————
Thanks for getting involved in this discussion. I always appreciate your input & insights.
re: "As someone who no longer has children in the system, not interested in higher office like some on the eastside, and solely wants all the kids in the district to succeed, please tell me how my role is "self-serving.""
I should have been clearer in my comment. I certainly do not consider you self-serving, and I apologize if I gave that impression. I include you among the school board trustees that I described in my comment as "well-meaning & sincere in their desire to improve Dublin HS". My "self-serving" comment was intended to refer to the expected position of the district & board with regards to approving a charter school that would not be under their control and would likely draw funding away from the district. Please tell me if I am being overly pessimistic in assuming their opposition.
re: "something that I believe has worked well in other cities"
It's good to see you say that. Since we can assume from your comment that you will not have an "intractable opposition" to a charter high school in east Dublin, I (and I'm sure many others) would love to hear your position on the issue and your advice for charter school advocates. Since you have stated on several occasions that you think a traditional public high school in east Dublin is a failed proposal, am I correct to assume that you agree with me that a charter school is the next best solution for parents seeking a high school in east Dublin?
As for the largely irrelevant earlier comment about Princton, Columbia, Harvard, and Stanford, I assume it was posted by an imposter claiming to be you (this is not the first time), since the poster did not use your registered ID. In contrast, your legitimate postings are typically well thought out, coherent and avoid personal attacks. In any case, only an ignorant or mean-spirited poster would cast aspersions on the accomplishments of individual Dublin HS students, or imply that no top students or great citizens have come out of Dublin HS. However, the same can be said for some of the worst high schools in the country, which have also produced some outstanding graduates. As a case in point, I graduated from Carlmont HS in Belmont, whose 2008 API score is almost as low as Dublin HS's (800 vs. 798) and, despite that, I'm one of the most successful & admired persons I've ever known. A classic example of overcoming almost unimaginable disadvantages!
Sincerely,
Tim Hall
Dublin, CA
1:31 PM on June 30th, 2009
To Tim Hall,
First of all I hope you are not severely injured and will recover quickly from your accident. I've gone down the Iron Horse many times and know it can get a little risky. Be well.
I appreciate your words about "self-serving." When you've put in as much time as I have, it is disconcerting to have people think I benefit personally from a point of view.
Here is my overarching view of the growth of the Dublin School System going forward.
1. A second high school in the east is not doable given the facts I have previously stated (No land, not enough students for 2 schools, etc.).
2. The community has invested $100M in rebuilding Dublin High to give it the tools to become a top flight school. Given today's hard times for everyone, do you think people will not want to get the full return on that investment? The district, the city, and the community has put all our eggs in one basket – Dublin High School.
3. For me, today, there is a more compelling reason not to engage in anything that doesn't go straight to making classroom learning improve in every school. That reason is MONEY, or lack of it. We are a fortunate district in that we have managed our funding well and have minimized our state cuts as best we can. Having said that, we have still cut teachers, programs, and increased class sizes. Of equal importance is the fact that there are more heavy cuts expected mid-school year. How can you expect the community to entertain anything else while we are trying to maintain our already rigid plans for improvement in the face of catastrophe?
Yours is not the first time the idea of a magnet or charter has come up during my 15 years of involvement on the school board. We have had healthy discussions on the topic in the past and I found them to be valuable in identifying innovation for the district, So, yes, I would entertain hearing more about your ideas.
And in return I ask you to become more involved in supporting our current path forward. We need leaders to help raise money and bring productive ideas to each school in the district. Dublin Partners in Education (DPIE) can also benefit from your expertise as we have to replace state revenues with local voluntary ones.
Please come to the board meeting tonight to hear about how we have had to cut our general fund to accommodate adversity. Our goal remains to educate kids so they enter Dublin High much better prepared for the rigor we now require to graduate. To me that is a key foundation in how you create a great high school.
John B. Ledahl
2:34 PM on June 30th, 2009
In light of the recent Wall Street shenanigans and the likes of Bernie Madoff, should Dublin stay the course and continue to "put all our eggs in one basket"? As relatively new transplants to the Bay Area, we are intrigued by the idea of charter schools and would like to hear more about them — both the good and the bad. Thanks.
4:43 PM on June 30th, 2009
To Anonymous on June 30, 2009 2:34 PM
I seldom respond to anonymous posters, but since you are new to Dublin please allow me to answer your question.
First of all its apples and oranges. Equating how a decision by a distict/city that is expected to grow no more than 65-70K people to the Madoff scandal seems to defy logic. Everything done around building out Dublin as a city, and focusing on Dublin High as a flagship school has been done in the public eye with complete transparancy including board meetings, Community Conversations, and even an all hands City industry meeting of every stakeholder in the city. This wasn't a decision made by just one school board.
Directly to your question, the decision for one high school was made by a number of years ago in conjunction with city and district planners and lots of community input. They simply decided that even at buildout the city should not have two small high schools, and that bringing all possible resources together could only enhance the chances of building a greater school for the whole city. Since then we have devoted $100M to rebuild Dublin High School.
I can understand your comment about wanting to learn more about charter schools. Of course, in order to do that you will also have to learn about the current schools and their needs going forward – including every elem. and middle school. Nothing can be done in a vacuum (which BTW is the farthest thing to what the Madoff scandal implies). Hope that answers your question.
5:22 PM on June 30th, 2009
John L.,
You said, "Based on the geography, demography, and City growth plans any one in the know can see no more than 2500 kids at buildout. Many eastside folks attended board meetings to hear experts on this. If they are wrong it is not going to be by 1000 kids."
First of all, I do not quite believe the demographic analysis they have done a number of years ago is necessarily true now. Even I follow your logic, what if they are wrong by, say, 800 students? Where should those students go? Can DHS accommodate them? You know, most of the charter high schools have less than 800 students. It makes sense to me to have a larger traditional public high school and a smaller charter high school side by side in Dublin.
8:25 PM on June 30th, 2009
George,
Good point. The Master Plan for Dublin High allows, with both the land and broad facilities, to handle well over 3000 students. The charter school question is separate from the growth capacity and is really only being proposed in order to bring a high school to the east side.
10:32 PM on June 30th, 2009
Its sad to see one more discussion with 95% of participants throwing enormities while staying anonymous to make sure they won't get bothered to participate in any activities to improve things at DHS or a future high school.
Where I come from, there's no such thing as a API score. People judge schools on their teacher, facilities, offerings. They meet them, they go visit the school.
For me, high score doesn't mean good teachers/facility/offering. And different demographic and ethnicities doesn't mean your child future is doomed.
How many here grew up in a blue collar environment vs. those who grew up in an isolated royalty-like compound? I see the former much more open-minded to have their kids studying alongside others from different backgrounds as well as with kids living in condos and rentals on the East Side while not considering them all thugs and low-life (as frequently mentioned on this blog).
11:02 AM on July 1st, 2009
I bought a house in Dublin because I love the East Dublin community and found the region very accessible. I felt that DHS was adequate for my kids and intend to send my kids there. However, if there is a possibility that a East-side HS can be built I am all for it. It will make East Dublin that much more desirable.
5:41 PM on July 1st, 2009
I posted this last night and it never was posted. I hope this one will be.
At the school board meeting last night the school board:
1. Cut $3.5M including teachers, programs, and all professional development for teachers for next year, after cutting $2M+ this past year. More cuts are expected mid-school year. It will all have a direct impact on every classroom in the district.
2. I confirmed that Dublin High School can easily be built to over 3000 students given its land and new facilities.
3. I asked staff to re-do the forecast going out 15 years on both estimated city population and the sizes of each school. Dedicated to this re-evaluation is a look at the assumptions used and any change in the estimates. Given our economic future over the next few years I cannot imagine the numbers will grow, but in any event, I have asked for an update. I fully expect to see Around Dublin bloggers at the meeting as this is central to your argument.
Which leads me to the last point. No one from Around Dublin – neither bloggers nor editors nor proponents of a charter school showed up to see how our funding has been shrunk and the devastation that will occur to our processes in place, including new grad requirements. Is it because you only care about your own agenda? I can't see how that will attract cooperation from the majority of folks in town.
11:58 PM on July 3rd, 2009
Economy is cyclic. In a few years, our economy will be in better shape. So current economic reality seems irrelevant to building a charter hign school in east Dublin.
It is going to take years for a charter school materialize. I support DHS to improve greatly; at the same time, I am intrigued by the idea of a charted school in east Dublin. We should explore the idea to see how to achieve the goal. I support DHS, I also hope John Ledahl and others will support a new charter high school so that parents can have an option.
BTW, how is the attendance area determined for a charter school? Can a west Dublin student choose to go to charter high school when it is built? Different students may thrive at different environment. I hope Dublin will have an exceptional DHS and an exceptional charter hign school. That will make Dubin the most desirable city in the area.
12:07 AM on July 4th, 2009
The best for Dublin is to make all schools successful. A strong DHS will help everyone. A new charter high school will have a dramatic impact to improve the city's image!
Let us request the whole Dublin city to support the new charter high school! DHS is on the right track to improve. The new charter school will be a great complement and a great magnet in tri-valley. It will attract students from all over Dublin, Pleasanton and San Ramon.
Please keep a positive attitude and let's make the charter school a reality.