High SAT Scores for Danville and Pleasanton High Schools, Dublin and Livermore Disappoint
Based on the latest data available for Tri-Valley high schools from the California Department of Education (CDE), students from high schools in Pleasanton, Danville, and San Ramon, CA, have significantly outperformed those from high schools in Dublin and Livermore, CA, on the SAT Reasoning Test (SAT). This observation is consistent with the trend in API and the trend in AP exam scores for Tri-Valley high schools. SAT results for 2005-2008 reveal that Dublin High School students scored lower on average than students at Livermore High School and Granada High School. Additionally, students at Dublin High School have progressively scored lower on the SAT each year from 2005-2006 to 2007-2008.
The SAT is a standardized test used by nearly all college admissions throughout the United States to evaluate a student’s college readiness. Owned, published, and developed by the College Board, the SAT consists of three distinct sections that objectively measure the critical reading, mathematical reasoning, and writing skills of the students. Each year, more than two million students take the SAT.
SAT scores are arguably the most reliable measure of a high school’s ability to prepare their students for college. The scores from each of the three sections can range from 200 to 800, so the best possible total score is 2400. Since the average score for each section is roughly 500, the average total score is about 1500. Nearly all traditional four-year colleges require SAT scores as part of the application process for high school students.
In general, most high school students must achieve a combined SAT score of at least 1500 for admissions into the mid-tier colleges. To be considered by the top-tier colleges and universities like Stanford and MIT, students need a total score of at least 2000.
To determine how well the Tri-Valley high schools are preparing students for college, the CDE uses the percentage of 12th grade students achieving a score of 1500 or higher as an objective indicator. Based on three years’ data from 2005-2008, the top three Tri-Valley high schools are San Ramon Valley (59%), Monte Vista (58%), and Foothill (55%). The bottom three high schools are Livermore (28%), Granada (31%), and Dublin (32%).
In terms of combined average SAT scores for the same period, the top three high schools are Monte Vista (1718), Foothill (1701), and San Ramon Valley (1699). The bottom three high schools are Dublin (1593), Livermore (1619), and Granada (1628). The most surprising finding is, perhaps, that Dublin High School students have actually scored progressively lower each year in terms of the ‘percentage achieving at least 1500′ and ‘average SAT exam score’ over the 2005-2008 period.
Please visit http://www.collegeboard.com/ for more information about the SAT.
11:47 PM on March 22nd, 2010
I hope this improves in 8 years (my kid is in 1st grade), or else it is renting this Dublin house to rent in Pleasanton for 4 years.
7:29 PM on May 23rd, 2011
According to an article in the Los Angeles Times, the average California high school SAT score is 1517. All eight high schools in the Tri-Valley area exceed this score. In the same article, it says the national average SAT score is 1509. Again, all eight Tri-Valley high schools exceed this score. Breaking down SAT scores by county, the Los Angeles Times reports that of the 29 top-scoring schools in Contra Costa County, San Ramon Valley is fifth (1708), and California and Monte Vista are tied for sixth (1688). The L.A. Times also reports that of the 44 top-scoring schools in Alameda County, Foothill is fourth (1681), Amador Valley is sixth (1669), Livermore is ninth (1633), Granada is 10th (1626) and Dublin is 13th (1588). All eight Tri-Valley schools exceed the average California high school SAT score, the national average SAT score and rank in the top third among the schools in their respective counties. The numbers don’t lie. The Tri-Valley area has some excellent high schools.
12:29 AM on May 24th, 2011
What are you trying to prove? Dublin High is the worst in Tri-valley and just above average in the state and county? Nobody is denying that. The problem is that East Dublin citizens don’t want just that and they want much more – a top high school in Tri-valley at least.
2:28 PM on May 24th, 2011
Check out this link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-americas-schools/2011/05/09/AFunW27G_story.html
11:07 AM on May 25th, 2011
I would not be surprised at all if this opinion piece is written by some guy who leans towards teacher unions. But opinion is just opinion and it is not facts.
One fact that I can point out about Dublin High though: If you just look at Asian American students (same demographic in this case), Dublin High signficantly underperforms other top Tri-Valley schools (API 900 vs 950 as an example).
10:26 PM on May 25th, 2011
not all asians are the same. the rich intellectual chinese lives in pleasanton and san ramon.
1:57 PM on May 26th, 2011
Then why don’t they choose to live in Dublin? Don’t you think high school is one of the major reasons?
9:37 PM on May 26th, 2011
because dublin is ugly. well to do families do not move to a city because of school. it is the other way around. good school exists because of well to do families.
11:44 AM on May 27th, 2011
Who said that? Why are people willing to pay huge premium for housing for those cities with very good schools? Don’t you need to be wealthy to afford houses in those cities at first place?
9:12 AM on March 23rd, 2010
I personally believe, that U.S. Americans, are unable to do so, because uh, some, people out there, in our nation don’t have maps. and uh…I believe that our education like such as in South Africa, and the Iraq, everywhere like such as…and, I believe they should uh, our education over here, in the U.S. should help the U.S. or should help South Africa, and should help the Iraq and Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for us.
10:38 AM on March 23rd, 2010
Thanks – that put a big smile on my face
11:20 AM on March 23rd, 2010
People are focusing too much on API scores these days. No doubt it is important because it is based on the basic STAR test scores, i.e., basic requirements. However, for “competitive” college applications, college readiness numbers – AP participation and pass rates and SAT scores are more important. That is why US News and World Reports have been using these to rank high schools. Of course, extracurricular activities (in addition to academic) are also part of the overall considerations.
11:33 AM on March 23rd, 2010
Wow! Can someone please explain how Dublin High School is considered “great”? Looks very bad to me.
1:04 PM on March 23rd, 2010
I would just like to point out a few things since it is easy to twist the graphics and distort the underpinning variables that contribute to the average SAT scores dropping. I do not plan to analyze the entire data set since everybody can do that on his or her own time.
Please realize this information and above graphic has been selected for political proposes. Please take the time to look at the raw data, it will better help you understand what is going on.
http://bit.ly/bpFwGp
Here is a ink to raw data that I quickly compiled from Dataquest. You can look up your own info at:
http://data1.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/dataquest.asp
If you would like help in digging the data, email me or give me a call, I can send you the web links, etc. that will help you find your own information. My email is bosterrick@dublin.k12.ca.us Please put DPRIDE in the subject line so you will not get caught in the spam filter. If you would like to talk, my number is (925) 828 2568 x 5401.
First, averaging the last four years worth of a school’s data, when a school has shown big gains in student achievement over the past two years, (one of which isn’t included in this old data on the CDE website), that school will always come up short. That is the rule of averaging. Think of it as looking at your financial portfolio account statement over the last year or two and then compare that average return to the five and ten year average returns. Averaging draws down present impressive gains.
Second, the SAT scoring has changed over the last few years making the test slightly harder, plus it has incorporated a writing component. All schools have seen a decline in the average SAT scores. Issues also exist with the new writing portion in a study done by MIT. If you don’t believe me just look up the wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#Historical_development
Third, the average SAT score is dependent on how many seniors took the SAT that particular year.
I share this in hopes that we can have a more productive conversation vs. the personal attacks that paint a negative light on Dubliners as a whole. While it is true that DHS has some room to grow to catch up with our northern and southern neighbors, generally speaking, DHS performs better than Livermore High and Granada High especially when you look at the changes that have happened in the last three years. The good news is that DHS is moving in the right direction.
Respectfully Yours,
Rick
1:42 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Hi Rick – you mentioned that the increased difficulty of the SAT exam is a reason for Dublin High’s diminished performance. Would this only impact DHS or would students at all Tri-Valley high schools be impacted, as well?
Thx, John Z.
12:12 AM on March 24th, 2010
Hi John & Anonymous Posters,
In putting on my DUSD GATE Coordinator hat, I am always concerned about challenging Gifted and Talented students K-12. Explaining and highlighting Dublin students’ learning is a part of my job description and I am happy to answer any questions for you.
As for Murray’s scores, not to beat a dead horse since I have already posted at length about that subject, but please check out this link:
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2009/09/2009-dublin-unified-school-district-api-scores/#comment-3520
Or give me a call and I would be happy to talk to you about it.
The reasons behind the achievements on standardized tests are always fascinating. George and I have been carrying on discussions on that subject for a few articles now. (Socio-economic vs. parent involvement vs. rigor of class offerings) Looking at the SAT results, it mirrors what I saw at Murray. Our students are doing OK in math but it is their reading and writing scores that bring down the overall average. Not surprisingly, the same discrepancy exists in the SAT raw data. Looks like my bit.ly link died out from the earlier post so here is the full url for the raw SAT data:
http://rdboster.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/sat-scores2.jpg
It does look like DHS, LHS, and GHS all saw a decrease in SAT scores. Based on the raw data, it looks like it was the reading and writing that brought the scores down. (More writing than reading.) Cal High had inconsistent results in these two categories over the same three-year span so it is hard to say what exactly happened there.
John, I didn’t have the time to list all of the schools since I was on a 10 minute lunch break between recess and the next meeting when I posted earlier. Maybe you could post the raw data for all of the schools so we can better examine the results. It seems that you can post pictures to the blog whereas the comment section only allows text and links. If I had to guess, my hunch is that the other schools may have not seen a decrease in the reading or writing components. You’re right, it would be great to examine the reasons behind this phenomenon. Could be socio-economic, rigor of course work, length of the written essay on the SAT, SAT Prep Class content, etc. It is important to discover what the variables are so we can improve on the present scores.
Regardless, I would appreciate the raw data picture. I would love to have informed discussions vs. the personal jabs that really serve no purpose. George was treated very poorly in the comments section on the last article and I was surprised that you didn’t step in, as you have in the past, to help moderate the exchange. We may disagree, but the ugliness of some of the comments are unnecessary and reflect poorly on the city.
Anyhow, this trend of the lower reading and writing scores were similar to the results I observed here at Murray. In response, we have instituted a reading challenge and we have revamped our writing curriculum. This past year we have seen improvements in our test scores. Please see the two slides below for the reading and writing score improvements on the state tests.
http://rdboster.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/slide4.jpg
http://rdboster.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/slide12.jpg
If parents would like to know what to do to insure that their child is achieving their highest learning potential, I have complied all the research I could find on the impact of parent involvement and made it available to all of the elementary schools in a tri-fold brochure. I think that George and I agree on this point, parent involvement with your child’s education can make a huge impact on their learning potential regardless of your income status.
http://rdboster.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/parent-involvement-trifold.pdf
As for the SAT prep at the high school, I would encourage you to call the counselors and admins at the high school to find out the specifics on what they do to prep students for those tests. I am sure they can provide you with thorough answers.
Sincerely,
Rick
8:01 AM on March 24th, 2010
I only like one sentence in our dear Principle’s long long comments “it is important to discover what the variables are so we can improve on the present scores.” Unfortunately I expected more. I was hoping someone actually comment “we HAVE discussed the fact in DHS, and here is the plan to improve the current situation” without waiting someone to dig out the data. On the country, I heard blaming on student race, parent income, etc. The teacher union just sit and wait high quality students to flood in to raise the score instead of taking actions to help all kids.
In elementary school, parents plays more important role to their kids, but as the students get into high school, the quality of class actually affect the students’s college major and career direction. Some high school parents (I may be wrong since the source is not from through investigation) told me Pleasanton AP classes cover more contents related to SAT test. DHS keeps mention they offer most of the AP classes but they never say the AP classes quality need to improve. If they do not take action on their program quality other than just improve the facility, I will prefer small, high quality, accountable charter school.
1:46 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Principal Boster-
Is this really the best use of your time during a school day?
2:25 PM on March 23rd, 2010
No wonder Murray’s API dropped this year. Their principal is too busy justifying Dublin High’s sub-par performance.
People have been attacking the utility of SAT for generations, yet all the top colleges still use it as one of the admissions criteria. I am shocked by how poorly Dublin High is preparing our students for the SAT.
5:29 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Rick – how much of this do you think is attributed to “teaching the test” or not? There are some schools that “teach the test” and do more rigorous prepration for the test. Is DHS preparing students with older SAT material?
12:49 PM on March 23rd, 2010
why do you think this disparity exists? is it an issue of income disparity between cities? the fact that san ramon has built up huge developments and attracted different demographics? is this a reflection of the parents? just trying to understand some of the causes and how we can help bring up the scores of dublin hs students
1:23 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Ok..while I am a supporter of Tassajara Prep or any other extension of High school in East Dublin, this kind of propaganda is baseless. The graph is a distorted view of 2005-2008, Dublin high is an improving school. I would like facts to be compared with the 2009-2010 SAT scores. Since last few years, Dublin high has done considerable improvements in its test scores. Dublin student demographics is now changing. Generally it has been found that socio-economic status of students is more relevant in test scores. San Ramon and Pleasanton has lots of kids who fit that background. We have seen improvement in Dublin since last couple of years once Fallon kids moved over. Dont mean to start debate between east and west, but socio-economic status has a big part in test scores. The parents are motivated, the kids are high achieving and parents demand more from schools. Please do not post these irrelevant facts and further denigrate Dublin high. This is irresponsible.
1:39 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Hello Another Fallon Mom – Around Dublin will definitely publish additional articles providing the SAT statistics as the scores for additional years become available.
Thx, John Z.
2:21 PM on March 23rd, 2010
The detailed SAT data for 2009 are not released yet. But here is the summary:
Release: #09-123
August 25, 2009
Contact: Ioannis Kazanis
E-mail: communications@cde.ca.gov
Phone: 916-319-0818
State Schools Chief Jack O’Connell
Comments on Release of SAT® Scores
SACRAMENTO — State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O’Connell today issued a statement on the results of the SAT for the California class of 2009.
“California is home to the most diverse student population in the nation, and I am pleased to see that the most diverse group of California’s graduating seniors has taken a significant step in pursuing a college education by taking the SAT,” O’Connell said. “Among California’s 2009 college-bound seniors who took the SAT, 37 percent were minority students. Additionally, 47 percent of California’s SAT takers will be the first in their families to go to college. This represents a tremendous achievement by our minority students, and it is a testament to the outstanding work being done in our schools by our dedicated teachers, staff, and administrators.”
From a participation standpoint, California saw yet another year of increased participation with the percentage of public high school graduates who took the SAT this year at 49 percent, up from 48 percent in 2008. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 10 of the 15 fastest growing jobs in the United States require some postsecondary education—a two- or four-year college degree or certificate training. That fact is not changed by the current economic situation.
“The downturn we’ve experienced in our economy has seen California’s unemployment rate rise to a record high of 11.9 percent as we saw last week,” O’Connell said. “With increased unemployment comes increased competition for jobs, so it is encouraging to see that more and more students continue to take the SAT. This means more students are strongly considering pursuing a college degree, which will significantly enhance their marketability in the workforce. Furthermore, if our students are to keep pace with the rapidly changing demands of the workforce – with the fastest growing jobs essentially requiring some type of postsecondary education – then it is vital that more young adults attend college.”
In terms of performance, public school students scored 495 in critical reading, up one point from 2008; 493 on writing the same as last year; and 494 on mathematics, a 1-point decrease from 2008. California’s students who took more demanding honors or Advanced Placement® courses tended to have higher SAT scores. For example, students who took English honors or AP courses scored 55 points higher in critical reading than the average of all students in California, and 56 points higher in writing. Similarly, students taking math honors or AP courses had an 86-point advantage compared to the average SAT mathematics scores for the state.
Additionally, those completing a core curriculum — four or more years of English, three or more years of mathematics, three or more years of natural science, and three or more years of social science and history — outscored their classmates who did not take a core curriculum. Comparisons of California’s public school students who took core curricula with those who did not showed an average score difference of 54 points on the critical reading section, 62 points higher on the mathematics section and 57 points higher on the writing section of the SAT. Among all ethnic groups, Hispanic public school test takers have had the greatest percent increase in the past year, going from 46,956 test takers in 2008 to 49,498 in 2009.
“Even with test scores generally improving, we still have a long way to go,” O’Connell said. “The achievement gap continues to persist between students who are white or Asian and African American or Latino students. Similar to the ACT® results released last week, the SAT scores show too many students of color are falling behind academically. We have a moral, social, and economic obligation to ensure that all of our students are effectively prepared to meet the challenges of the hypercompetitive global economy.”
7:02 PM on March 23rd, 2010
To: Another Fallon Mom
I’m puzzled by your complaint that this report of SAT data is “baseless”, “distorted” and “irrelevant”. The article is just reporting the data. If the data is incorrect, I assume someone from DUSD would have pointed that out. So far I haven’t seen anyone disputing the data, other than claiming that it denigrates Dublin HS. I’ve looked at the CDE site and the data looks correct to me.
We’ve seen a variety of posts from Principal Boster and OneDublin supporters about what an outstanding school Dublin HS is academically. It’s nice that they have such pride in Dublin HS, but like many parents, I put more credence in the actual numbers than in the shouts of pride. Numbers and statistics can certainly be distorted, but in this case I think it’s clear that we are seeing meaningful statistics based on the latest real SAT numbers as reported by CDE. If these statistics reflect poorly on Dublin HS, is that the fault of the people presenting the facts? Would you prefer that these facts be suppressed while unquantifiable statistics are being thrown around by OneDublin, such as the claim that 98% of Dublin HS graduates go on to college?
Don’t you want to know how Dublin HS compares academically to our neighboring high schools? Good SAT scores are a requirement to get into most colleges. A score of 1500 will not get your child into the college you’d like them to go to. Yet only 32% of Dublin HS students scored 1500 or higher, compared to almost double that percentage at San Ramon Valley HS. Why don’t you think that’s relevant?
Frankly I’m very surprised at these numbers and I’m grateful someone is doing some meaningful statistical analysis of public high school academic performance in the Tri-Valley.
I hope you are right that Dublin High’s numbers will go up when the 2008-2009 data is reported. But what will you say if its SAT results, relative to our neighboring high schools, shows little or no improvement? Just because the API score went up doesn’t necessarily mean the SAT results will improve. API is a complex subject and the scores are not of interest to most universities, but SAT scores are considered an accurate measurement of college-readiness by most universities.
Green Father Dan
9:59 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Hi, Dan,
I think “98% of Dublin HS graduates going on to colleges” is a quantifiable statistics. But this number does not tell you the quality of colleges, hence it is not a very meaningful number. For example, Mission San Jose High School probably would have at most 100% graduates going on to colleges, which is not much more than DHS’s (at most 100% vs 98%). However, if you look at the quality of colleges, you would find there is a huge difference between MSJHS and DHS. About 40% of MSJHS graduates go on to UC or better, compared to about 10-15% of DHS graduates.
12:22 AM on March 24th, 2010
http://www.cpec.ca.gov/OnLineData/OutreachSearch.asp
George and Dan, give this website a try. There is lots of college bound info on high schools. Just search by name, FYI the info is 2 years old(2007) but it is better than nothing.
RB
10:48 AM on March 24th, 2010
Thanks for your link, Rick. I double checked and I stand by my factual statement:
“About 40% of MSJHS graduates go on to UC or better, compared to about 10-15% of DHS graduates.”
You can also see there is a big difference between DHS and other Tri-Valley high schools (except Livermore) in terms of this much-more-meaningful number.
4:19 PM on March 26th, 2010
Hi All,
After analyzing the interactions, involving social media over the course of the past few years, I have concluded that the anonymous blogosphere may not be the best place to build community and answer questions. Therefore, if you would still like info about Murray or the GATE program, please give me a call, email me, look us up on Facebook, come to our parent meetings, or call and set up a one-on-one chat. I would love to talk to you all about education.
For now, I have some serious cheering to do, Go Buckeyes and Go Gaels!(as in St. Mary’s) We have student teachers on campus that hail from St. Mary’s so I am jumping on that bandwagon.
Best wishes to all in your endeavors!
5:40 PM on March 26th, 2010
Principal Boster,
I think it is great news for the students of Dublin that you are going to be spending your time while on the taxpayer dime doing something other than blogging. I have no clue what skill-set you were hired for, but I assume that it was not because of an ability to write long-winded replies defending a high school – which is not under attack, on a blog.
Does Murray have an Assistant Principal? Maybe they can fill in for you here and you can spend some time around your students.
Am I the only one offended by the conduct of our administrators?
1:52 PM on March 24th, 2010
George,
You wrote: “I think “98% of Dublin HS graduates going on to colleges” is a quantifiable statistics.”
Sorry, what I meant to say is “verifiable” instead of “quantifiable”. Where did this 98% number come from and how can it be verified and compared “apples to apples” with high schools like Monte Vista, Foothill, and Mission San Jose? I suspect it can’t.
It would be great to see, for every high school, the percentage of students admitted to each of the following:
4-year colleges
Cal State campuses
UC campuses
Top-Tier Universities
Objective statistics like these (along with SAT scores, AP Test pass rates, drop-out rates, suspension rates, NCS sports championships, etc.) would help parents evaluate high schools based on whatever criteria is important to them.
Probably some of the most meaningful statistics would be the percentages of students at each high school that actually graduated from each of the four categories of colleges listed above. I assume that information would be very difficult to track, so it’s probably not done.
Dublin High supporters should not be offended when objective statistics are posted. They should want to know the facts as much as anyone else.
Dan
12:38 AM on March 25th, 2010
Hi George and Dan,
Hey Dan, please check out the link I mentioned above. It has all of the information you are requesting (even # of UC and CSU degrees handed out to DHS College Grads in 2007). I would be glad to explain how to get there. Give me a call sometime tomorrow; morning is better. 828 2568 x 5401. It isn’t easy to paste a url since there are multiple web pages that act a menus for the database interface.
I really don’t think anyone is afraid of the data nor offended by it. Most admins are keenly aware of their data and if you were to come sit down and talk to us, I think you’ll find out that we have concerns too and we can give you specific answers surrounding your questions. Since Dublin is a small community, it is still nice to do things face-to-face. It helps develop a better understanding and draws us closer as a community.
George, from what I see on the 2006-2007 graduate data, there were 288 grads from DHS.
UC Total Freshmen enrollment = 21
CSU Total Freshmen enrollment= 50
Community College Freshmen enrollment =132
Private WASC college enrollment = 5
Grand Total = 208
For the class of 2007, that would be a 72.2% enrollment rate as Freshmen in college. Now that doesn’t include any trade schools or schools that may not report out to the State CA on freshmen enrollment. It also doesn’t include any students who may choose the military and then go with the GI Bill.
Furthermore, the UC/CSU/ WASC accredited attendance rate is 76/288 = 26.4%
The quote from http://www.onedublin.org :
“98% of 2009 Dublin High grads report attending college”
As for the quote from http://www.onedublin.org we will not be able to confirm that publically until 2012 when the state catches up on its reporting. Given the recent increase in achievement, it is feasible that the 98% figure is within the ballpark. Please call Carol Shimizu at the high school for the exact figures if you would like them before 2012.
Regards,
Rick
7:02 AM on March 25th, 2010
I’ll save you calling the school and wasting their time. I stated I didn’t plan to post on Around Dublin further due to the personal attacks that result against my family, but I’ll make one exception here.
With the claims that I made up the 98% number I went back in my file of source material to verify the number. I did indeed make a mistake – it’s 95%. For those who know me, it was an innocent mistake. For those whose goal is to discredit and attack me personally, go to town and I encourage you to scour OneDublin.org for inaccuracies – if you find any I’ll address them. My goal has been to provide accurate, fact-based arguments and a counter to the Around Dublin promotion of the charter school initiative which I strongly oppose.
The source of the stat is the Class of 2009 Profile document that is based on DHS graduate exit interviews – a document that has been sitting on DHS’ website before this debate even began (http://dhs.dublin.k12.ca.us/pages/uploaded_files/DHS%20Class%20of%202009.pdf).
How did I get 95%? I took the total number of students attending 2-year and 4-year colleges (294) and divided that by the number of surveys completed (313) minus students enlisting in the military (5). 294 / (313-5) = 95%. I excluded those who have chosen to serve our country because I respect that decision as much as the decision to enter college, and many military vets go on to college post service (the number is 94% if you disagree with that view). I made no assumptions regarding the 20 students that didn’t complete exit surveys.
How did I get 98% in the first place? Calculator typo last Fall. What am I going to do next? I’m going to do the right thing which, in addition to this note, is updating the OneDublin.org website accordingly (which may take a few days). When I make a mistake I admit it and fix it.
The argument of 2-year vs. 4-year college – I asked the DHS Counseling Dept. about that earlier this year and it didn’t surprise me to learn that 75% of 2-year college bound students from 2009 are enrolled in transfer programs to 4-year colleges – and that in most cases that is due to economics. There are families in our community that simply cannot afford 4-year college and leverage the transfer program route to save money (both the tuition and the ability for the student to live at home by attending a nearby campus). According to the UC system, 30% of UC Berkeley juniors are transfers from 2-year college programs – and they do just as well as students that entered as freshman.
There are two paths Around Dublin could have taken to promote Tassajara Prep:
(a) build ties to the community by positively engaging and promoting the benefits of the charter initiative (as at least one charter supporter has recommended)
(b) or, denigrate the Dublin High community – insult the staff, parents and students.
It is unfortunate that Around Dublin has chosen (b).
7:15 AM on March 25th, 2010
This blog has not been the same without you, James. Good to see you are someone who’s not afraid to go back on his words. We did not expect any more from you.
To re-iterate what Green Father Dan has said so eloquently, I don’t see how presenting data, no matter how unflattering, is denigrating DHS. How can DHS ever truly improve if it does not see the lower-than-expected SAT scores as a serious problem? Did families move here so their kids can end up in community college, because they want to be close to their friends? If my daughter ends up with the College of Lost Potentials as her only option, I will have failed her as a father.
6:26 PM on March 25th, 2010
James — It’s easy to make whatever wild claim you like, and if you say it enough times, some people will believe it. You claim that Around Dublin has chosen to “denigrate the Dublin High community” and “insult the staff, parents and students”. It seems like you are trying to get people to hate Tassajara Prep supporters. Is that really the example you want to set for your kids? I’ve seen numerous articles on this blog educating the public about Tassajara Prep and keeping us informed on its progress through the petition process, but I don’t recall a single instance of the Around Dublin folks doing what you claim. Can you give us an example where they’ve done that, or else admit another mistake and retract your inflammatory and divisive claim?
Dan
1:54 PM on April 16th, 2010
James,
I get it. Your goal is to convince everyone that Dublin High is an outstanding academic high school. I suppose that’s admirable, but it’s also rather odd. Why would an outstanding academic high school need a self-anointed cheerleader to try to convince people of that fact? Such schools produce results that speak for themselves. They don’t need banners or parades or pins or bumper stickers or YouTube testimonials or parent cheerleaders or zealot websites like OneDublin. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
I see that you’ve retreated from your frequent Around Dublin postings praising Dublin HS profusely while attacking Tassajara Prep and its founders in every way you can think of. I can understand why you’ve fled this highly-visible forum, and it’s not, as you claim, “due to the personal attacks that result against my family.” That’s just silly posturing, and you know it. Nobody has made any personal attacks against your family. And if they did, such anonymous “attacks” could just as easily been posted by you as another of your childish attempts at vilifying this very valuable community resource known as the Around Dublin Blog. Besides, personal attacks could still be made whether you continued to post here or not, so you’re not accomplishing anything material by personally boycotting Around Dublin. No, I think it’s clear that you have fled because you realized that people have wised up to your deliberately misleading postings and have responded with facts that you cannot attempt to refute without embarrassing yourself further. You obviously prefer to hide behind your OneDublin website, where you control the entire message and where nobody can post the facts that contradict your wild claims.
Those of us that like the idea of a public college prep high school in Dublin, whether or not we ultimately choose to send our kids there, are not going away and we’re not going to be intimidated by all the anger and screaming coming from you and your fellow Dublin HS parents and faculty. Of course you and they feel threatened by the potential for a high-quality public college prep high school in Dublin. Nobody truly welcomes competition, but you are being very shortsighted by not recognizing the tremendous benefits to all of Dublin by the addition of an outstanding high school. The long-term effect will be the elevation of Dublin HS to true excellence. For an example, take a look at the amazing effect Mission San Jose High in Fremont is having on its neighboring high school, Irvington High. Over time, Irvington is becoming one of the top high schools in the Bay Area, whereas 20 years ago it was just another average high school that attracted no families to its boundaries. The same thing is going to happen in Dublin, no matter how shrill the opposition screams.
After I questioned your dubious claim that 98% of Dublin HS graduates went to college, you backpedaled and pretended that you had made an innocent mistake and that the real number was 95%. That was no innocent mistake, and you know it. I looked at the DHS Exit Survey page that you referred to:
(http://dhs.dublin.k12.ca.us/pages/uploaded_files/DHS%20Class%20of%202009.pdf)
Your deliberate misrepresentation of the data became clear almost immediately. In order to artificially boost the percentage you wanted to report, you obviously made the dishonest decision to exclude the 13 kids who said they were doing missionary work, an apprenticeship, enlisting in the military, or attending vocational schools. That’s how you came up with your bogus 98% claim (294 divided by 313-13). You were hoping no one would check your math. You are making a big mistake by assuming that other people are not as smart as you.
Now you are dancing around your deception by claiming that you simply miscalculated and that you only excluded the kids going into the military, and that’s only because you respect their decision. James, your respect has nothing to do with the real numbers. The true percentage of 2009 DHS graduates claiming that they were going to college is 92% (294/313), not 98% and not 95%.
James, you’ve made that bogus 98% claim in countless postings and speeches, presumably figuring that if you said it enough times, people would start believing it. Now that you’ve been proven wrong, not once have I seen you attempt to retract your inaccurate claims, other than a single apology buried in one of your postings on Around Dublin, and even then you were continuing to mislead by claiming that the actual rate was 95%, which you also know is not true. The actual rate is 92%.
But that’s still not the true picture of Dublin High’s college prep performance. As you know, exactly 122 of the 313 graduates surveyed in 2009 claimed they were going to a 4-year college. That’s 39%. That’s the number we all care about. Let me repeat that for all to see:
39% OF 2009 DUBLIN HS GRADS CLAIMED THEY WERE GOING TO A 4-YEAR COLLEGE
I’m not going to make a value judgment about that 39% result. Parents need to decide for themselves if that’s a result they are happy with. But I think a reasonable person would not claim that Dublin does not need a public college prep high school because Dublin High already meets that need. College prep high schools aim for 75% to 100% of graduates going directly to 4-year colleges. In contrast, Dublin High’s rate of 39% is significantly below the average for public high schools in the U.S. (44.1%) and way, way below the average for private high schools (79.5%), according to data for 2003 graduates as reported by the U.S. Department of Education at:
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d06/tables/dt06_188.asp
James, you claim to be an honest person, so unless you can refute these numbers, why don’t you post this comment on your OneDublin site for all of your supporters to see? I don’t care to identify myself more than as just “Dan” to avoid the frequently demonstrated animosity of OneDublin supporters.
Dan
1:19 PM on March 29th, 2010
There is a contradiction here. 98% of DHS seniors will be attending colleges, but only 45% of them took the SAT? What school will admit a student without an SAT score?
1:59 PM on March 24th, 2010
Another Fallon Mom,
I’m intrigued by your claim that Dublin High’s improvement is the result of Fallon students moving to the high school. I don’t think the district has ever acknowledged that, and I doubt they ever will because of what the underlying message would be. If your claim is accurate, then I can see why the district is so concerned about a charter high school in east Dublin. If Tassajara Prep draws off significant numbers of east Fallon students that would have instead gone to Dublin HS, and the result is that Dublin High’s test scores go down, what does that say about the intrinsic quality of the high school? Is Dublin HS improving because they are doing a better job of educating our kids, or is it improving because they are benefiting from an ever-increasing influx of higher-achieving kids from higher socio-economic groups? Maybe that was the strategy from the start, when the decision was made to not build the high school that was planned for east Dublin.
I can see where it would be DUSD’s and OneDublin’s worst nightmare if an 850-student Tassajara Prep shows outstanding results while Dublin High’s results drop. That would prove false their rather silly claims that a high school needs 1800 or more students in order to do well. That’s proven wrong every day by a number of outstanding public high schools in the Bay Area.
Dan
9:29 AM on March 26th, 2010
Another Fallon Mom. The only two facility choices for the new school are co-locate at Dublin High or the old Neilson campus which is even farther west. This proposal is not going to produce an east side campus for you. That decision was made by our elected officials a long time ago.
12:23 AM on March 27th, 2010
Rich,
You wrote “The only two facility choices for the new school are co-locate at Dublin High or the old Neilson campus which is even farther west.”
I believe you accidentally forgot to list at least two other options –
1) Build a new school on some of the empty land in east Dublin.
2) Occupy one or more of the empty office or commercial buildings east of Dougherty Rd.
Dan
2:09 AM on March 27th, 2010
As much as I support a HS east of Dougherty (and if the Charter is the way to get it, then so be it), the reality of the budget situation is that there are no DUSD funds available to (a) buy land and build a school or (b) rent additional facilities for a new high school. The budget shortfall is already calling for a reduction in staff along with many other cuts, and the budget for the following year is looking to be worse, too. I hope TP backers have deep pockets if either of these two choices were selected.
12:29 PM on March 27th, 2010
Anonymous wrote “there are no DUSD funds available to (a) buy land and build a school or (b) rent additional facilities for a new high school.”
Just to be clear, it would not be the Dublin Unified School District that would purchase the land, build the school, or rent facilities for Tassajara Prep. Some charter schools finance their own facilities if the facilities available from the local school district are not satisfactory.
Remember that developers set aside land for a high school as part of the East Dublin Specific Plan. My understanding is that some of that land was used instead for Fallon Middle School, with the remainder used for residential development. I believe that land for the current and future elementary schools in east Dublin were also “donated” by landowners. There remains a lot of undeveloped land in east Dublin. Perhaps a similar arrangement can be made with a land owner in exchange for re-zoning the remainder of their land. It would be in landowners’ best interests to have a high school in east Dublin, as it would greatly increase the appeal of homes built on their land. With donated land, building a new school would be quite feasible using financing (e.g., a bond) covered by a portion of the per-student fees received from the state.
Similarly, if an existing commercial facility in east Dublin would work for Tassajara Prep, the lease costs could be covered by a portion of the per-student fees.
Dan
12:41 PM on March 30th, 2010
Neither option is viable. Trying to pass a bond to fund a new school would be impossible in this economy (also would be difficult without any parent support like we had with Measure C). An office building location would require a zoning change. Good luck with that.
My point continues to be that this is a square peg in a round hole. Charter schools were designed by the legislature as a vehicle for communities to right education wrongs. Not to force facility decisions.
12:47 PM on March 30th, 2010
I think he is talking about corporate bonds instead of municipal bonds, since TVLC is a corporation. It is completely different from Measure C or Measure L bonds and has nothing to do with the votes. When the school opens in a couple of years, hopefully the credit market is going to be much better.
12:55 PM on March 30th, 2010
Hi Rich,
“An office building location would require a zoning change. Good luck with that.”
What do you mean by this statement exactly? Now that the District has denied the petition, Tassajara Prep will become either a County entity or a State entity. Both County and State trump Municipal jurisdiction. On top of that, we have a federal government that is charter school friendly, so I really would like to see how the City of Dublin fight the charter school once it has been approved.
2:02 PM on March 30th, 2010
Of course City Council will fight the charter school tooth and nail. Mayor Sbranti and Vice Mayor Hildenbrand, when she’s not sleeping with other local politicians and collecting alimony, are both employees of DUSD. I don’t know about the other three on the Council, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they all have ties to DUSD. And you know what, DUSD will continue to pack the Council with people that will fight against the idea of a second high school — charter or non-charter. Doesn’t matter to them.
I still have not seen much from the Tassajara Prep folks, so I think this attempt, while valiant, will ultimately be rejected by the County or the State. The best option for families who want more for their kids is to move as so many other families have done.
2:32 PM on March 30th, 2010
Hi Anonymous – please refrain from making these types of comments about individuals within our community. It is disrespectful and hurtful. I know both Tim and Kasie and they are wonderful people who truly care about our community.
Thx, John
11:48 PM on March 23rd, 2010
hello. this is not about the quality of schools but the quality of students. you cannot compare the tri-valley schools against each other. danville, san ramon and pleasanton students are from high income families, unlike dublin and livermore. so many latinos in dublin and livermore. send the dublin and livermore students to san ramon and pleasanton schools, the school scores will surely drop.
11:54 PM on March 23rd, 2010
Sounds like typical Teachers’ Union speak to me. When confronted with unflattering data, they blame the students and their families. Never once do they take responsibility for failing our students.
12:39 AM on March 24th, 2010
you only have to look at east and west elementary schools in dublin to prove this. same school system, different students, different API’s. swap the kids at dougherty and murray – what do you think the API’s will be?
1:33 PM on March 30th, 2010
Point taken. I’m tired of hearing about socialeconomic factors. For elementary kids, it’s all about the parents. School involvement, discipline in doing homework correctly, time management, practicing quizzes, making sure the kids understand the subjects, communication with teachers. All the above takes time and effort, but most Dougherty parents are willing to do this on top of making a living. Let’s face it, baring a very few special cases, kids from anywhere are pretty much the same, and so are the school staff. It’s the extra time studying at home that shows up in test scores.
11:59 PM on March 23rd, 2010
I am pretty sure Pleasanton has just as many Latinos.
12:05 AM on March 24th, 2010
Curious about the SATs, I Googled around and my nephew who is vising from India (he is in class VII, which is 7th grade in the US) was able to nail the algebra practice questions one after another.
And per his parents is not the brightest bulb in his school.
9:38 AM on March 24th, 2010
wow, this site is now focused on discrediting DHS. well, there is nothing good to say about TP so just attact DHS. good job. it makes me puke.
9:56 AM on March 24th, 2010
To Puking Anonymous,
Learn to spell and make sure not to choke on your own vomit.
9:41 AM on March 24th, 2010
“The teacher union just sit and wait high quality students to flood in to raise the score instead of taking actions to help all kids.”
Please know what you are talking about before you speak. From this comment alone, it’s clear that you have no idea what is going on at DHS. Instead of making grammatically incorrect comments, why don’t you call up administration at DHS and find out what is being done to help all students.
“Some high school parents (I may be wrong since the source is not from through investigation) told me Pleasanton AP classes cover more contents related to SAT test.”
AP classes often have little to do with the SAT. AP classes cover very specific content. Many AP classes (government, economics, history, sciences, etc) have nothing to do with the SAT test. AP classes cover content to prepare for the AP TEST, not the SAT. That’s what SAT prep classes are for.
11:14 AM on March 24th, 2010
This statement is not exactly true. According to my research, AP classes in English and Mathematics will help achieve better SAT scores. Same for other AP classes, they will be very useful for preparing SAT subject tests.
2:10 PM on March 24th, 2010
Well SAT subject tests, yes, but is that really what we are talking about here?
4:40 PM on March 24th, 2010
Didn’t I also say this “AP classes in English and Mathematics will help achieve better SAT scores”?
10:05 AM on March 24th, 2010
DHS is failing miserably in terms of AP exam pass rate too:
http://www.arounddublinblog.com/2010/03/dublin-ca-high-school-ap-exam-pass-rates-in-tri-valley/
If DHS is claiming to be college-prep, it should prepare the students for the SAT, period. I have a hard time believing 98% of DHS students go on to college after seeing this chart. I guess most go on to community colleges, since those don’t require SAT at all.
10:47 AM on March 24th, 2010
Puker,
I feel the same way you do, but we got here by different paths.
It is great to see the rally of spirit from Dublin High School. The kids in Dublin are forced to attend that high school unless their parents either pay for a private school or move so they can go to a good school. My definition of a good high school is a school that prepares the majority of their students to succeed. This data does not suggest that Dublin High fits the bill. I am not a passionate supporter of the charter school. I am educated enough to try to see all sides of an issue. It is clear to me that the kids need to support their school. Their own reputations are to a certain extent tied to the reputation of the school.
I understand the teachers and principals fighting the charter school. For them to support the charter school, it would almost force them to admit that they are failing our students. They never will. If they would admit this, there would be no need for the option because that would be the first step toward creating a good school. It is clear that they would prefer to avoid facts and responsibility, and hide behind those tied to the reputation of the school. Sad.
What makes me want to puke is the members of the community who will go so far as to cast dispersion on those actually trying to do something positive. It seems as if the charter school folks have stayed at a pretty high level with their comments. It is sad that the response from the school district to the charter school proposal is Dublin High is great, we don’t need this school, and there is no support for it. while they have their crowd, the current Dublin High parents, scared of the impact of the school on their kids reputation, fight the proposed school.
It is really an example of self interest taking the lead over the greater good. The data speaks for itself. Fear should not be the prevailing factor in education reform. Or maybe it should be but not from the fear of change perspective. We should all be afraid that we are not preparing students for success. Status quo is not good enough.
It really makes me more and more interested in seeing this new school open.
11:24 AM on March 24th, 2010
I agree with Robert. You never hear DUSD take responsibility for failing our students. They always blame it on socioeconomics and other factors. Anything to take the focus away from the bad teachers and the union protection. The outcome is what we have in Dublin — rock bottom SAT scores. People of all races and socioeconomic backgrounds have moved away, because our sub-par teachers and administrators cannot run our district. They all deserve pink slips.
11:30 AM on March 24th, 2010
Bravo!!!
9:40 PM on March 24th, 2010
Sorry, I just want to clarify this message is a reply to Robert’s comment. NOT a bravo for the message above mine.
1:29 PM on March 29th, 2010
Thanks for the info about community colleges not requiring SAT’s. I was wondering about the 98% college-bound seniors and only 45% taking the SAT.
10:38 AM on March 24th, 2010
lets face it. if you want to better the chances of your kids going to a good college…move to san ramon or pleasanton. of course there are exceptions and quite a bit of dhs kids go on to very good colleges. but on average, you are better living someone else.
dublin has always lagged behind academically compared to its neighbors. only with the development of east dublin have we seen a significant overall rise of academic improvement. i would say it’s probably due to the hard work of the teachers and administrators in the district AND parent involvement/socio-economic status, etc…
so as a community we face two options:
1. wait for the east dublin kids to further populate dhs and have its scores improve or
2. support the creation of another hs in east dublin and have one academically better school than another in the school district.
i really don’t know which is the better option…and i believe a lot of others also have the same dilemma
12:58 PM on March 30th, 2010
Yes DHS is lagging behind Pleasanton and San Ramon for the reasons mentioned. Both sides are missing the main point: DHS is very average. It’s neither great nor bad. But think of what average means these days. We are all waiting to see what the $120M infusion will do, whether and if academic performances will take traction.
Please don’t compare Dublin High to Mission San Jose. Home prices in the Mission district has sky-rocketed to $M+ in the last 10 years because of families (some from as far away as Taiwan) wanting their kids to attend any MSJ schools, not only the famous high school. Their academic momentum starts at the elementary schools, not at the 9th gradde when it’s already too late for most kids to build a strong foundation. You may as well compare DHS to Piedmont High.
The 75% DHS seniors going to community colleges reflects the Dublin demographics. Touting 95% of kids going to college is self serving and misleading. Mr. Wu showed a study indicating minute 0.2% CC transfer rate to UC, yet others mentioned 30% of Berkeley Juniors are CC transfers. Which is correct? Could it be Cal accepts most CC transfers and other UC schools rejects them? I would think not.
Don’t forget about the graduation rate. Overall graduation rate for UC are ~80%, but for more “challenging” mayors like CS and ECE, the rate is between 50 and 60%. A C average report card means academic probation; a couple more of those and you’re out to make room for the next kid. UC has always harbor and even encourage this harsh competitive environment.
Fallon opened in 2005. The ex-Fallon kids have already taken their SAT’s at DHS for the last couple of years. Has the scores improved significantly?
8:48 PM on December 5th, 2010
So many people are saying that to improve your chances to get into a good college is to go to a school like what they have in Danville and Pleasanton because of their superior resources.
Not true. They key always is what the kid will do with what he has. If anything, in a less “competitive” school it is “easier” for a determined kid to excel and stand out among his or her peers.
Its not just schools in Pleasanton and Danville that have “lots” of kids who go to top schools. I spoke today with a student who graduated from the tiny (and I would like to add “poor”) Chinese Christian High School in San Leandro. She is a Freshman at UC Berkeley and from her graduating class of 60 students, 11 were accepted at UC Berkeley (that’s a whopping 18.3%!!). That doesn’t include those who were accepted at UCLA, UCSD, USC etc. Unlike many other private schools, the tuition is low (and sadly their facilities reflect this). I am not saying that anybody should send their kids to this school, but I am trying to make the point that many kids are accepted at the elite colleges despite not having the superior resources of the schools in Danville and Pleasanton.
Its all about how much a kid applies themself to getting ahead in school and life.
12:31 AM on December 6th, 2010
i disagree. what i believe is that if you go to dublin high school then you have no future. if you go to pleasanton, san ramon, danville or tassajara prep then you dont have to worry about your future.
11:53 AM on March 24th, 2010
it is not education alone that will shape the future of your kids so don’t put to much weight on school ratings and where your kids will go to high school or college. at age 24, my wife came to this country 13 years ago for a $48K a year job in I.T. now she earns $130K a year. and yet, her only education was from a country that ranks 138th in the world in education.
12:28 PM on March 24th, 2010
Right, so if your wife is a high school dropout who makes a $1 Million today, you’d be advocating that we shutdown the high school, so all the kids in Dublin can follow the steps of your trailblazing wife? She must be thrilled to have you as a husband.
1:37 PM on March 24th, 2010
no, you are studid if you do that and your spouse will be happy to kick you out of town.
3:57 PM on March 24th, 2010
No offense, but I would not rate anyone’s smartness with how much they make in IT. Been in this industry 14 years, there is a lot of inconsistency and I hardly see anyone making 100K+ do any real work.
12:04 PM on March 24th, 2010
Cmon folks, do some of us sound spoiled our what. Just think your kids can be in the Oakland school district where the district SAT score average in the 1200′s recently. I’m sure you all want the best opportunities for your kids, but cmon nitpicking between who has the better SAT scores among the tri-valley area to determine your kids academic attendance…? You really can’t go wrong in the Tri-Valley area no matter where you choose to live if based solely on academics. Yes, keeping the academic standards high is no question a benefit to Americas standing in the world. Besides the school district, the parents, environment and the crowd your kids choose to be associated with plays a role in your kids future successes. So who is to blame if your kid chooses the wrong path even if they did grow up in a well to do environment?
Anyway, i’m rambling on now, just my view/opinion as someone who grew up in ruff parts of Oakland and onto academic success.
12:20 PM on March 24th, 2010
Well, by your argument, as long as there exists a worse performing school somewhere in the world, parents in Dublin should be grateful for the sub-par school they have.
3:06 PM on March 24th, 2010
Dan,
I could not agree more about that the claim that the high school must be large in order to be good is complete nonsense.
I think it is worth pointing out that James Morehead of OneDublin has repeatedly said that Dublin High offers two dozen AP classes and if the student population were smaller, they could not offer as many AP classes. Looking at the results from their students AP exams, it is clear that they SHOULD NOT offer as many AP classes as they do. The students don’t seem to be benefitting from the offering at all.
3:57 PM on March 24th, 2010
Just because the SAT scores suck, we need a new high school? That is the stupidest argument I’ve heard yet. Hey how about this. Why don’t you take all that money you were going to use to build another high school and pay for a SAT prep course for each student. Since that is THE ONLY WAY to get a great SAT score. Every person commenting on this blog knows it.
4:18 PM on March 24th, 2010
The fact that the low SAT scores is not even on the radar of DUSD is concerning.
The fact that DUSD still maintains 98% of DHS’s graduating seniors go on to college, in light of these numbers, is concerning.
The fact that we have teachers and principals who blame the students and parents for low test scores and take credit for any marginal improvement in the API is concerning.
Yes, we are essentially getting a new high school with the Measure C improvements, but what our students really need are new teachers and new administrators who can help all the kids qualify for admission into traditional four-year colleges and who are held accountable when test scores are bad.
4:34 PM on March 24th, 2010
“The fact that the low SAT scores is not even on the radar of DUSD is concerning.” This is a fact? Prove that DUSD isn’t concerned and/or aware of it.
“The fact that DUSD still maintains 98% of DHS’s graduating seniors go on to college, in light of these numbers, is concerning.” If this is true, that 98% of seniors go on to college, why WOULDN’T DUSD report this?
“The fact that we have teachers and principals who blame the students and parents for low test scores and take credit for any marginal improvement in the API is concerning.” Please prove to me that the teachers and/or administrators of DHS have ever done this.
4:44 PM on March 24th, 2010
Let’s start with our favorite principal at Murray. Anytime anyone brings up hard data, he responds with a 10-page essay “on his 10 minute lunch break”. Board members like John Ledahl who call an entire race of students robots. Anyone who has ever used socioeconomic arguments to justify DHS’s low scores is guilty of blaming the students and the parents. Take the time to visit Dublin High and you’ll find those teachers and administrators slithering throughout campus.
4:50 PM on March 24th, 2010
The principal at Murray is neither an administrator at DHS, nor is he a teacher there. Nice try. Neither is John Ledahl.
If you think that socioeconomics plays NO ROLE in test scores, you’re kidding yourself. And furthermore, I seriously doubt that anyone can logically argue that this can be the only reason.
Referencing your last statement, I sincerely doubt that you have ANY sort of direct contact with anyone working at DHS.
Thanks for not directly addressing any of my challenges.
4:55 PM on March 24th, 2010
And thanks for confirming that you are one of these teachers I talked about. Glad to see our kids are in such good hands.
5:08 PM on March 24th, 2010
The burden of proof is not on the parents, the students, or the community. We all pay taxes to fund public education. The school should be accountable to us.
Justify these facts:
-Less than half of the graduates of Dublin High School take SAT exams.
-Of those that do, about a third score high enough to get into a decent college or university.
-The majority of Dublin High students who take AP classes and
also take the AP exams fail the exams.
I don’t care what they say. I really would prefer that they stop defending how great they are, telling people to “come to Dublin High and see for yourself”. Fact is, the results are terrible. Don’t sing your praise in the face of this kind of indicting data.
This is why we MUST have a new school around here. ACCOUNTABILITY
8:00 PM on March 24th, 2010
In response to your AP “fact”:
According to the CA dept of education, in the 2007-2008 (I couldn’t find more recent report) out of 340 total AP exams taken, 231 scored a 3 or above. For most colleges, a score of 3 is considered a passing grade.
9:05 PM on March 24th, 2010
Hi Anonymous,
Please take a look at Stanford University’s College Board Advanced Placement (AP) Chart 2009-10.
“A maximum of 45 quarter units of transfer and test credit may be applied toward the undergraduate degree. Subjects not listed on this chart are not eligible for AP credit. If Stanford courses are taken below the level of the placement course, the duplicating AP units will be removed. Scores of 4 or 5 on language AP exams fulfill the language requirement.”
If you look at the Stanford chart, you will see that Stanford does not accept AP credit for everything. You will also see that a score of 3 is not acceptable in most subjects. To get the maximum college credit, students really need to score 5s in all accepted subjects. This conversion standard has actually been in place for at least 20 years, and it is not unique to Stanford.
5:58 PM on March 24th, 2010
“If this is true, that 98% of seniors go on to college, why WOULDN’T DUSD report this? ” You should post your doubt in OneDublin.org. It seems that they are creating data to misleading the community.
8:26 PM on March 24th, 2010
For most colleges a 3 is considered a passing grade? Those “most” colleges must be where the 98% of the DHS graduates go. They also don’t require SAT scores, as 2/3 of the students don’t take them and those that do average below 1500. Don’t try to defend poor performance with facts. It will be very frustrating for you and amusing for the rest of us.
By the way, most good colleges require 4 or higher to give credit.
4:58 PM on March 24th, 2010
“And thanks for confirming that you are one of these teachers I talked about. Glad to see our kids are in such good hands.”
If I was a teacher, what have I said that has been so questionable as to the merits of my work?
5:03 PM on March 24th, 2010
If you were a teacher, our kids obviously didn’t learn the subjunctive from you. Honestly, I don’t know which possibility is worse…
5:10 PM on March 24th, 2010
Again…didn’t answer my question. I’m sure you feel very important as the grammar police on a blog though.
5:02 PM on March 24th, 2010
This whole web site is geared for self-interest. Just look at the front page announcement. Since when do we start congratulating the new head of the Livermore Charter School… What a hack.
8:39 PM on March 24th, 2010
yes, i vote to change the name of this site to aroundlivermoreblog.com
6:30 PM on March 24th, 2010
All these arguments regarding the new high school is pointless. The fate of the new school will be decided by the parents of current 6th graders who will be the first to enter even if somehow the school were to be established. Without their willingness to try out their kids, it cannot be done. I seriously doubt any Dublin parents are willing to send their kids to an unproven high school situated at a temporary location. Perhaps the new school can recruit kids from Tracy or Livermore for the first year.
9:34 AM on March 25th, 2010
Lets face it. The biggest reason DHS scores will improve in the future is because the east dublin kids will start to populate the school in larger numbers.
So if the east dublin folks want a high school for themselves, let them have it…
If the new school is too small and doesn’t do well, the east dublin folks suffer…if the school is a success, the east dublin folks prosper…
Choice seems to be a good idea….
10:54 AM on March 25th, 2010
Hi Around Dublin Team,
I have a question regarding the “university-accredited courses” that you mentioned in the other article. Is it the same as or similar to IB (International Baccalaureate) program that some high schools provide?
11:15 AM on March 25th, 2010
Hi Green Mom,
These courses will be actual college courses developed with TVLC’s partner colleges and universities and offered to the TVLC students. Since these are real college courses, students will receive real college credit upon successful completion.
11:38 AM on March 25th, 2010
I am a college counselor (who lives in Dublin) and I also work privately, assisting high school students with the college admissions process. I have worked with students and families at San Ramon Valley, Monte Vista and Dublin High Schools.
This is the first time I have read this blog and had a few quick reactions to this article about SAT scores.
1. It has been my experience that A LOT of students at SRVHS and MVHS sign up for private SAT prep courses and tutoring – often at a significant expense. These programs can be effective in helping students score well on the SAT. So, if we are going to have a serious discussion comparing the quality of schools based on SAT scores, this is one of many factors that needs to be considered. Perhaps, some of the difference in scores is impacted by the use of private SAT prep turors (by a higher % of students) and not simply a reflection of a schools quality.
2. I don’t think you can compare schools based on SAT scores without knowing other important information. Such as: % of students who did not grow up with English as their primary language. I’m sure this would impact SAT scores.
3. The article above had one sentence that needs to be addressed. “SAT scores are arguably the most reliable measure of a high school’s ability to prepare their students for college”. I would like to know the basis for this statement.
There is a trend among many colleges right now away from requiring the SAT. My understanding is this is happening because the SAT is not necessarily a good predictor for college success. Schools are putting more empahsis on high school courses and GPA. Also, I would imagine that a FAR more reliable ‘measure of how well a high school prepares students for college success’ would be how well students actually do in college.
4. There is a perception that students can not get accepted into “good” schools without a strong SAT score. The academic requirements for different schools are a reflection of their popularity more than their quality. Schools that receive the most applications typically have the highest GPA, SAT req’s etc. (simple supply & demand) Sometimes schools are popular because they are very good, but not always. There are many less popular but outstanding colleges around the country that do not require 2000+ SAT scores.
There are a number of ways to evaluate a high school. I would be very careful about making conclusions based solely on comparing SAT scores against other schools – and that seems to be what this author is attempting to do.
12:20 PM on March 25th, 2010
I found what you said contradict to each other.
If SAT scores are not important, why would parents in SRVHS and MVHS spend big bucks to send their kids to the SAT prep courses.
Many Asian students did very well in SAT tests. Their primary language is not English as far as I know. How do you explain that?
You may be able to find a few good colleges not using SAT scores as admission criteria. But I would say most of the top colleges (UC or better) will use them. Nobody is claiming SAT scores are perfect to use and 100% correlated to college performance.
Are you going to throw the baby out with the bath water?
1:15 PM on March 25th, 2010
Counselor Dale,
I’d put more weight on what you have to say if you can share with us what college you work for. If you work for a name college like Stanford or Berkeley AND have first-hand experience in their admissions office, you’d have more credibility.
Preeminent colleges across the country require SAT scores for a reason. If student performance on the SAT is not an important predictor, why would they have insisted on such a requirement for all these years? If DHS truly understands what college-prep means, we’d be all seeing a very different graph today.
12:13 AM on April 8th, 2010
Finally, a person who speaks from experience. I am appalled at the number of people who have commented about SAT scores, data, etc. who have absolutely no knowledge of the meaning of a “well-rounded student”. Colleges, including Ivy-League, look at the whole student, not just test scores. Thank you for your comments.
2:01 AM on April 8th, 2010
How do you know Dublin High’s students are more well-rounded than those in other high schools with higher SAT scores? What I found is that high schools with higher SAT scores have more students going into top notch colleges. Someone posted a list of college admissions for Lynbrook High in West San Jose. Is Dublin High even close? I can bet they have much higher average SAT scores.
11:58 AM on March 25th, 2010
Somehow AD does not allow comments on the new counselor TVLC hired. I must say I am very, very impressed by his background and achievements. I really hope he can bring his expertise, experience and connections to charter schools to make the education world-class (or at least the best in Tri-Valley).
12:18 PM on March 25th, 2010
Hi George,
For certain articles and announcements we have elected to disable comments on the Blog. Readers can still comment on Facebook and Twitter. Dr. Treadway’s background is indeed impressive, and he is truly passionate about education. We look forward to sharing more details about the world-class programs he will be developing, in partnership with Bay Area’s top-tier colleges and universities, for TVLC’s students in the near future.
11:18 PM on March 25th, 2010
According to the LA Times article below, the odds for transferring from CC to UC or CSU is not much at all:
14,000 out of 2.7M students transferred to UC every year (about 0.5%) ;
55,000 out of 2.7M students transferred to CSU every year (about 2%).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
California seeks to boost transfer rates to 4-year universities
All three of the state’s public college systems form a task force to help smooth the way for students seeking a bachelor’s degree.
February 05, 2009|Gale Holland
Leaders of California’s public college and university systems announced Wednesday that they are launching a joint task force to boost the number of community college students who transfer to the state’s four-year universities.
Only 14,000 of the 2.7 million students enrolled in the state’s 110 community colleges transfer to University of California campuses, and 55,000 others move on to California State University campuses.
Although many community college students are seeking job skills or enrichment rather than a university degree, experts say the transfer path is riddled with procedural potholes even for those determined to use a two-year campus as a launching pad to further education. California ranks 39th among states in the percentage of bachelor’s degrees awarded to high school graduates after six years, according to the public universities.
“Expanding the opportunity for a four-year education is a critical need for California,” UC President Mark Yudof told a meeting of the Board of Regents in San Francisco. “I believe we need to be actively involved, working in the colleges themselves, and in partnership with the other institutions of higher education, to encourage students to pursue transfer options and understand that it is achievable and affordable.”
All three of the state’s public college systems will participate equally in the transfer task force.
Yudof, California State University Chancellor Charles Reed and California Community Colleges Chancellor Jack Scott, in a joint statement, said improving transfer rates would reduce the costs of obtaining a four-year degree and thus expand opportunities for underrepresented and educationally disadvantaged students, who often prefer to begin their college education close to home.
Chancellor Mark Drummond of the Los Angeles Community College District said he welcomed the initiative but added that it is a complicated process, and that it will take major statewide policy shifts to attack the problem.
Recent efforts have improved transfer rates for California students, but the growth has been slow.
Morgan Lynn, executive vice chancellor of California Community Colleges, said the task force’s efforts would include research “to see what works and doesn’t work” in improving transfer rates.
“Our goal for students is to ensure that when they arrive at the CSU, they have the tools, information and support they need to be successful in achieving a baccalaureate degree,” Reed said in a statement. “A plan developed by the three segments holds great promise.”
–
gale.holland@latimes.com
7:40 AM on March 26th, 2010
Let me do a simple math based on the data posted here:
Data from Rich:
UC Total Freshmen enrollment = 21
CSU Total Freshmen enrollment= 50
Community College Freshmen enrollment =132
Private WASC college enrollment = 5
Grand Total = 208
Data from George:
14,000 out of 2.7M (community college) students transferred to UC every year (about 0.5%) ;
55,000 out of 2.7M (community college) students transferred to CSU every year (about 2%).
Estimate Students graduate from UC will be: 21+0.5%*132 = 22
Estimate Students graduate from CSU will be = 50+2%*132 = 53
Estimate Students graduate from Community College =132-1 -3 = 129
Estimate Students graduate from Private WASC = 5
The transfer path did give kids a chance to get into UC or CSU but obviously only a small percentage kids can take the path. I really hope the transfer rate to UC can be boosted to 30% this year so the majority of Dublin kids can attend a 4-year university. I am dreaming.
10:46 AM on March 26th, 2010
From my experience, transferring from a CC to UC/CSU is a piece of cake. Anyone with the desire to transfers can. Comparing the students that transfer to the entire CC population is unfair cause most students that attend CC have no intention of transfer nor are they serious about higher education. Also, for students that can’t get into a CSU out of high school, college is really not for them. How hard is a 2.5 gpa in high school.
11:08 AM on March 26th, 2010
Annoymous,
Sometimes personal experience does not scale. In my personal experience, getting 2000 in SAT is a piece of cake. Can I say it is a piece of cake for all high school students to get 2000 in SAT?
Besides, I do not believe those “75% of 2-year college bound students from 2009 (who) are enrolled in transfer programs to 4-year colleges”(from James’s post) will suddenly decide that they “have no intention of transfer nor are serious about higher education” (from anonymous’s post).
1:10 PM on March 26th, 2010
CC is a great way for CSU/UC eligible high school students to save money on tuition by transferring or for CSU bound seniors to move up to a UC by going to CC first. Like I said, if you’re not eligible for CSU/UC then a 4 year college is probably not for you. Hence the low transfer rate.
2:05 PM on March 26th, 2010
That is right if you could transfer to UC/CSU. But the chance for that happening is very small from the data published by one poster.
11:45 AM on March 26th, 2010
Anyone can make this kind of subjective baseless statement. I would rather let data talk.
There are relatively high and selective standards in order to transfer from CC to UC or CSU, especially UC (see the following information). For this transfer, high school GPA does NOT count at all. I do not know why you are making such a statement. It does not make sense to only calculate the percentage using those students who desire to transfer. The fact of the matter is more than 90% of the CC students do not desire to transfer because they are not going to be qualified.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Comprehensive Review Factors for Transfer Applicants
When campuses receive applications from more prospective transfer students than they can admit, they draw on the eight criteria below to select among qualified applicants. This process is called comprehensive review.
Keep in mind that the pool of students who apply to UC is different every year. The level of academic performance necessary for admission to a particular campus or major will vary, depending on the number of applicants and their academic qualifications, as well as the number of available spaces.
Comprehensive Review Factors for Transfer Applicants
1. Completion of a specified pattern or number of courses that meet breadth or general education requirements.
2. Completion of a specified pattern or number of courses that provide continuity with upper division courses in the student’s major.
3. The student’s grade point average in all transferable courses.
4. Participation in academically selective honors courses or programs.
5. Special talents, achievements and awards in a particular field, such as visual and performing arts, communication or athletic endeavors; special skills, such as demonstrated written and oral proficiency in other languages; special interests, such as intensive study and exploration of other cultures; experiences that demonstrate unusual promise for leadership, such as significant community service or significant participation in student government; or other significant experiences or achievements that demonstrate the student’s promise for contributing to the intellectual vitality of a campus.
6. Completion of special projects undertaken in the context of the student’s college curriculum or in conjunction with special school events, projects or programs.
7. Academic accomplishments in light of the student’s life experiences and special circumstances.
8. Location of the student’s college and residence.
10:05 AM on March 26th, 2010
The following exchange appeared in my Facebook update this morning. I don’t know how to post screen caps here, so I figure I’d just copy-and-paste. King James and our favorite principal have been very busy. Clearly they have worked themselves into a tizzy, since they have nothing to counter data from the Dept. of Education. I find it funny that King James and Principal Boster would accuse Tassajara Prep of being negative, when they themselves have been the ones relentlessly attacking the charter folks since the start. A better response would be to say how DHS is aware of these performance disparities and has a plan in place to address these concerns. Of course, the problem has been and will continue to be that the overpaid administrators will never acknowledge their own failings and be held accountable. Why? Because they know right now they are the only game in town.
Oh, and Principal Boster clearly has developed a case of resume envy. Looks like someone is just not measuring up…
*=*=*
OneDublin.org Said:
I attended a Tri-Valley Learning Corp. Board Meeting this evening. Tassajara Prep is planning more articles in the coming weeks taking shots at Dublin High (while offering Tassajara Prep as the only solution). Those articles will inevitably lead to anonymous postings attacking the Dublin High community. Resist the temptation to respond.
*=*=*
Rick Boster Said:
George, TP has been on the attack since day one. Onedublin.org has laid out facts and concerns that really haven’t been refuted, except for personal attacks against the founders.
Based on my knowledge of Pathways’ and the process they followed in their charter application, their outcome has been much more favorable than TP’s experience.
For instance, Pathways talked to DUSD board members, built parent support, talked to the community, and then applied for their charter school. Since they had done the groundwork and established the need, without running such a negative campaign, they were able to start up their own program within DUSD based on their relationships they built. It has been such a win-win for all. In addition, parents don’t have to contribute tons of money to make it run. I guess there are two ways to go about it…
I agree; I would love to hear positive things from TP on how they are going to serve their students. With the bevy of new collaborators they have added, I am sure they can turn their focus to the future and begin a positive campaign.
1:03 PM on March 26th, 2010
wow, you are so dedicated to your worthless cause – you even had the time to cut and paste from facebook. A++++!!!!!!
1:29 PM on March 26th, 2010
Yes, I do feel bad that I too have contaminated the blog with garbage from DUSD. I sincerely apologize to the guys and gal at Around Dublin for that.
You know what, that “A+” is the only “A+” you’ll ever see, because you certainly won’t see it on your child’s report card. Keep typing.
11:12 AM on March 26th, 2010
Ok, I am getting tired of hearing AP scores/SAT scores are a reflection of high schools. The plain and simple fact is – Schools can only do so much. I have many friends from Pleasanton and Danville schools. They all agree – It is really upto the Student, how motivated they are, their parents, background etc. As long as the school continue to offer the AP classes, just so the students have opportunity. Most everybody relies on Kaplan and other sources for SAT, AP prep. The only way school helps is as long as the environment is good and the child is mixing with the right students, they can keep motivated. Dont blame high school for scores. I know everyone equates STAR test scores, SAT scores etc etc with school performance. Bottom line, if your child is good and motivated, they will do good anywhere. And yes, most students from all high schools around the country rely on SAT/AP prep classes. I personally think SAT scores have really nothing to do with schools, the school’s job is to provide the resources, safe environment and decent teachers. Beyond that it is upto the kids.
2:19 PM on March 26th, 2010
How about this logic? Schools with better SAT scores attract more caring parents with high school children. More students mean more resource. More resource makes better schools. Better schools have more better students. Your children can make more better friends. Teachers are more motivated to make sure more better students to succeed. Your children are more challenged and motivated to do better. Your children can achieve higher SAT scores and get into better colleges. Schools continue to have better SAT scores. Repeat from the beginning.
2:34 PM on March 26th, 2010
Well put. You must see lots of A’s and A+’s on your child’s report card. We are lucky to have parents like you who are still in Dublin. Of course, you make too much sense with your logic that it hurts, so DUSD and their shills will be accusing you of denigrating DHS. That whole if you’re not with King James you are against Dublin and the kids is ridiculous and fascist.
7:58 PM on March 26th, 2010
“Am I the only one offended by the conduct of our administrators?”
I just scrolled through the comments on this topic, and it looks like Boster only posted once during work hours, which could very well have been his lunch break.
You mean to tell me that NO ONE in the work world browses online here and there during the work day? Let’s get off our high horse.
2:59 PM on March 28th, 2010
Dublin friends,
I think some of you are forgetting why Dublin will never be equal to San Ramon and Pleasanton, or why people choose to buy houses in Windemere rather than east Dublin:
- Santa Rita Jail
- Federal Correctional prison
- Camp Parks
- Honda/Toyota and other non-luxury card dealership
- U-haul, El Monte RV
- Car body repair shops, Lube shops everywhere
- Hacienda Crossings
All of these don’t impact the community but they are eye sores that I would rather not have in my backyard.
And let us not forget, San Ramon and Pleasanton have the world class hospitals and more importantly the corporations. If I work for those companies, of course I would like to be as close as possible.
1:52 PM on March 31st, 2010
I just heard that Lynbrook High in West San Jose had 14 students admitted to MIT (many of them may not go at the end) and 4 admitted to Stanford this year. Wow, wow, wow,,,,,,,,
9:51 PM on March 31st, 2010
Has anyone considered the opinions of the students? I am a DHS student from East Dublin, and also ranked number 8 in my class. It is interesting because your statistics range from the years 2005 to 2008. However, in the past two years, DHS has been making remarkable improvements, including the significant increase in our API score. Additionally, the curriculum and graduation requirements are getting tougher. As a student, I wish that all the time and effort spent on creating TPrep was actually spent on improving DHS. Please just consider the voices of the East Dublin students, who I can guarantee would pick DHS over any other school around.
Let’s not fight, but instead unite.
10:08 PM on March 31st, 2010
As what I know that TP is open for all students in Dublin. All Dublin resident students get the same priority. There is no difference between East or West.
6:06 PM on April 5th, 2010
I just got a list of college admissions for Lynbrook High in West San Jose.
Collegs # of admissions # of waitinglists
Harvard 5 1
Princeton 8 3
Yales 2 1
MIT 13 1
Stanford 6 2
Chicago 8 2
Caltech 6 1
U Penn 5 2
Cornell 7 3
Duke 4 0
Brown 2 0
DartM 2 0
Col 0 5
JHU 3 1
UCB 29 0
UCLA 29 0
plus some Liberal Arts Colleges, such as Amhearst, Williams & Mary, etc.
11:11 PM on April 6th, 2010
I hope someone can post a similar list for Dublin High. It would be interesting to see the contrast. And hopefully it helps people realize the large gap between high schools so they won’t say Dublin High is already excellent and there is no need for further improvement.
10:05 PM on November 13th, 2010
All of this debate about the barren educational landscape that is Dublin compared to our North/South neighbors is not only greatly overrated, it is a useless waste of time. I am a California system student who graduated high school in May of 1990, from a school in San Jose that resembles exactly what DHS is today–and has been for a decade. And guess what: I never once studied for or participated in an SAT test–or any other pre-college test–because I wasn’t driven to do so by my parent. Call it expectations “on the margin” mixed with the simple freedom to either sink or swim. And thus, according to much of the logic presented here, I likely should have thrown myself off a bridge.
Well, since that time 22 years ago, I have done the following:
a) Never been out of work since graduating (not even for a week)
b) Attended state system junior college and later a state university
c) Passed all courses with a major and minor (paid for by me!)
d) Launched into a successful and focused career from intern level
e) Today make $115K+ annually with all imaginable benefits
f) Experienced rises in income almost every single year
g) Purchased a home in Dublin with two cars (both paid for)
h) I also can read, write and multiply just fine thank you.
Quit stressing over systems, tests and pretty documents. At the end of the day, that is just a pile of paperwork and a quagmire of useless debates that really serve to make insecure people feel more secure. Furthermore, individual drive, skills, passion and the motivation to persevere are what makes someone successful, not whether they attended the “perfect” high school, have the right last name, or rocketed an SAT score as they finished puberty.
Thank you.
Anon Dubliner
7:54 AM on May 27th, 2011
Annoying to read so much criticism toward Dublin High. If so many of you live here and financially well-off, stop complaining and do something. Help the school. So much snobbism. “Rich and intellectual Asian”. No one invited you to come and live here, but if you did, then start to care. I truly believe, if you son or daughter willing to learn, they can do it perfectly at any school. Even so in Dublin High. My son just got accepted at UC Berkeley plus to all others UC. I am a single mother and far from rich right now. I wish I could be the one to be able to help the school. If you don’t like, there is more choices hor you, like Alamo, Moraga or something like that. Most important, school doing better and better and I am absolutely sure it’s moving to the right direction.
7:54 PM on July 3rd, 2011
First let me say I am; so proud to have a Senior at DHS this year. My daughter just took the SAT TEST and scored high; because of the great teacher’s at DHS, including Frederick elementary and Wells Middle School. Maybe DHS according to the numbers have come in last; but its a lot better than some school districts in the Alameda County area. People who live in Dublin should support the teachers and the DHS; not put it down!!! I know a few parents that have DHS graduates and ALL have been to Universities! If you really supported the DHS; and prepare your child for the SAT testing besides just the classes they are taking in regular school. They will get a high score on the SAT test and all the other tests that the UNIVERSITIES look at. My daughter has passed all the exiting exams, and scores very high on the STAR testing. SUPPORT YOUR SCHOOL DHS OR MOVE OUT OF DUBLIN!!!!
4:16 PM on July 5th, 2011
Who gives you the fxxxing right to ask people to move out of Dublin? People do not have to join OneDublinHigh clan in order to live here.